Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
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02-06-2012, 03:10 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
Agree with Carlo. Bottom line is that if law abiding citizens can't have guns criminals will still get them. Think about all the armed robberies that are foiled because a guy in the grocery store was carrying a legal firearm. A gun at close range is no more effective a weapon than a butter knife. Those that are responsible with weapons should not have their rights to own one taken away just because criminals (who would commit the crime regardless of gun laws) are stupid.

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02-06-2012, 03:12 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(02-06-2012 02:23 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(02-06-2012 05:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  Except when you look at actual facts, you find there is no correlation between violent crime and gun control or even the number of guns.
I have to disagree with you on this matter. This series of studies shows that there is indeed a correlation between the number of firearm related crimes and the strictness of the gun laws in the respective country. You'll see that the US has a signifcantly higher amount of gun related crimes compared to countries with very strict gun control.
Any info on how many other types of crime there is? What about knives or stun guns? It would be important to find out if the number of stabbings go up because shootings go down.

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02-06-2012, 03:33 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(02-06-2012 05:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-06-2012 04:37 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  If you seriously wanna reject the fact that when someone (even the most morally upstanding person) is pushed too far they can snap and act out of character for at least a few seconds then I'm out.

You're either not listening to what people are saying or are purposely ignoring the truth.
But that's not about guns.

Is when you snap whilst holding a gun.

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02-06-2012, 03:37 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(02-06-2012 03:10 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Agree with Carlo. Bottom line is that if law abiding citizens can't have guns criminals will still get them. Think about all the armed robberies that are foiled because a guy in the grocery store was carrying a legal firearm. A gun at close range is no more effective a weapon than a butter knife. Those that are responsible with weapons should not have their rights to own one taken away just because criminals (who would commit the crime regardless of gun laws) are stupid.

If guns are illegal then you've just removed all spur of the moment shootings. That's a lot.

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Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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02-06-2012, 04:51 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(02-06-2012 03:37 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(02-06-2012 03:10 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Agree with Carlo. Bottom line is that if law abiding citizens can't have guns criminals will still get them. Think about all the armed robberies that are foiled because a guy in the grocery store was carrying a legal firearm. A gun at close range is no more effective a weapon than a butter knife. Those that are responsible with weapons should not have their rights to own one taken away just because criminals (who would commit the crime regardless of gun laws) are stupid.

If guns are illegal then you've just removed all spur of the moment shootings. That's a lot.
But it's not enough. Let's outlaw private ownership and operation of motor vehicles, too. Dodgy

The danger to freedom of a having disarmed populace outweighs the cost in accidental deaths and spur-of-the-moment shootings.
We should have rational laws concerning gun ownership, and we largely do (in the U.S.). We could review and modify them to make them better, but banning guns is not the answer.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-06-2012, 05:24 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(02-06-2012 04:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  But it's not enough. Let's outlaw private ownership and operation of motor vehicles, too. Dodgy

The danger to freedom of a having disarmed populace outweighs the cost in accidental deaths and spur-of-the-moment shootings.
We should have rational laws concerning gun ownership, and we largely do (in the U.S.). We could review and modify them to make them better, but banning guns is not the answer.

I'm a responsible citizen with the right to protect myself. I demand personal ownership of a set of nuclear weapons, refusing me this violates my freedom.

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02-06-2012, 05:37 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(02-06-2012 03:33 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(02-06-2012 05:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  But that's not about guns.

Is when you snap whilst holding a gun.
Most responsible gun owners aren't walking around with a loaded gun with the safety off.

If I got pissed enough to want to shoot someone, I would have to go to the gun safe, remember the combination, grab what I would hope was a loaded weapon, remember how the safety works on that weapon and then go shoot them.

By then I would have to assume my moment of rage would have calmed a bit.

Especially since I would have had to have asked the object of my anger to hang on till I could do all that.

That's responsible gun ownership.

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02-06-2012, 05:56 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
This is pretty simple to me. I feel I am responsible enough to own a gun. I feel that regulation placed on me is oppressive, since I think it's my choice to be a gun owner.

HOWEVER

If a gun regulation helps prevent my crazy neighbor from shooting me in the balls because he thinks I ate his dog, I fully support that regulation.

Basically, it's not about whether or not there should be gun regulation. I have an issue when said regulation has not been shown to protect my balls. Some rules do this, so I suck it up and don,t whine about them. Some rules don't and it slightly annoys me. Not much though. I'm comfortable with Canadian laws in regard to how they affect me, at least for the most part.

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02-06-2012, 07:32 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2012 07:37 PM by TrulyX.)
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(02-06-2012 04:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  We could review and modify them to make them better, but banning guns is not the answer.

I think that is really the common sense middle ground.

We should not ban guns. Crime in the city between gang members, kids shooting up schools, and mentally disturbed people/psychopaths, etc., should not prevent people in the country from being allowed to own a gun when it might be part of their livelihood by hunting, protecting themselves from wild animals, and protecting their livestock in certain cases from wild animals. Also, people who are responsible collectors, exhibition shooters, and want a gun for at-home/personal property protection, and keep it safely, should not have their rights taken away.

There does, however, need to be a responsibility about finding what will work to regulate guns and prevent gun violence and crime. Certain people, situations, circumstances and locations should be looked at, and restrictions and regulations need to be applied, and adjusted, according to what will work.

Regulation is, however, a band-aid for a bigger problem. Most shootings happen for a reason, and regardless of good or bad decisions, certain situations and circumstances lead to increased violence; that is what is at the core of what needs to be addressed. Examples are: mental health, inner city/lower income education, lack of opportunity presented to inner city/lower income individuals, drugs/drug dealing, gangs, bullying in schools, abuse/violence in homes, etc. are all core problems that need to be addressed, and solutions offered, in a discussion about gun violence.

To add lastly, we are not going to have another civil war, sorry guys. Also, our constitution, in the USA, is set up in a way so that it would make it damn near impossible for the people to have a legitimate beef with the government. All you have to do in the US, or any other democracy, is vote, run for office, support people who have similar ideas, etc. We are our biggest obstacle when it comes to a corrupt government, because "we the people" have the power, as granted by the constitution. If we didn't see a war during the civil rights movement of the '60s, I can't see a future situation that could create such a heated uproar that it could lead to violence against the government or an attempt to oppose or overthrow the US government. Even if there was an uprising, if the South lost during the civil war, on a more even playing field, how can you expect any group of random citizens fighting our current powerhouse of a military or law enforcement to have a chance? But like I said, I can't even envision a scenario where the people would want to overthrow our government. I can't even see a situation where forces would be sent against the people. Only thing I can think of, off top of my head, is violence between police and blacks like during the civil rights movement, some individuals/gangs vs. police (which tends to be, not in all cases, illegal guns and criminals against our government), and protests where police or citizens overreact to a situation. I can't call it knowledge, but I'm sure a big "we all need militias to protect ourselves from our corrupt liberal democracy" is a conservative wet-dream. As much as I love the constitution, the second amendment is pretty much dog shit at this point in our history.

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02-06-2012, 07:37 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
Hughsie, I don't think YOU should have access to a gun. All of these comments are just projectionism. I believe YOU would kill someone in a rage or argument if you had access to a gun. The rest of us are mature enough to understand priorities and consequences for our actions and won't kill someone over something as stupid or trivial as an argument. You have no self control. Never buy a gun. You can't handle one.

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