Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
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05-06-2012, 11:39 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(05-06-2012 11:33 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(05-06-2012 09:19 AM)Vosur Wrote:  What are the benefits supposed to be? Why is that nobody in, for example, Germany needs to own a gun in order to protect himself?
Can you realistically be expected to speak for every German's attitude toward self defense?
WTF?
I am responding to:
"Why is that nobody in, for example, Germany needs to own a gun in order to protect himself?"

Clearly, there are many legal gun owners in Germany.

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05-06-2012, 11:48 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(05-06-2012 11:00 AM)Chas Wrote:  There are 7,200,000 registered firearms owned by approximately 2,000,000 licensed citizens in Germany,
and an estimated 17,000,000 unregistered firearms.

Self-defense is a self-evident right. This includes protection from tyranny.
The raw number of gun owners doesn't mean anything. You wouldn't believe just how strict the gun laws in Germany are. For a "normal person", it is impossible to get your hands on a gun, other than by buying one on the black market. In order to get one legally, you either have to be member of a sportsclub or you must have a job which requires you to carry a weapon, such as being a policemen, a forest ranger, etc. You are not allowed to buy a weapon purely for self-defense purposes.

I haven't done enough research about the gun laws in the USA to form a profound opinion, but as far as I know you can get a rifle in certain states just by opening a bank account.

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05-06-2012, 12:13 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(05-06-2012 11:48 AM)Vosur Wrote:  as far as I know you can get a rifle in certain states just by opening a bank account.
Interesting if true. Saw this on the Michael Moore film. He irritates me, but it seemed legit?
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05-06-2012, 12:24 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(05-06-2012 12:13 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(05-06-2012 11:48 AM)Vosur Wrote:  as far as I know you can get a rifle in certain states just by opening a bank account.
Interesting if true. Saw this on the Michael Moore film. He irritates me, but it seemed legit?
You mean this scene?



I'm kind of skeptical whether it really is this easy to get a weapon in the U.S., which is why I will do more research on the subject later on.

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05-06-2012, 01:08 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(05-06-2012 08:17 AM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  This thread seems to be full of people who don't understand the concept that gun freedom allows everyone to have a weapon--not just themselves. And "everyone" opens up a very large continuum of possible idiots that will create serious problems. So let me point out: I really don't care how responsible you are with a gun, there are enough people who are not.
Then perhaps crimes committed with a gun should have stiffer penalties. This would further deter criminal activity and in no way affect responsible gun owners. The first time someone gets 20 years minimum in jail for robbing someone at an ATM I bet armed robbery would drop. As for murder, it can be done with any number of weapons. Bottom line is that stupid people get guns regardless of the law. That is a fact. All regulation does is further restrict the general populace from defending itself. I personally know people who have shot people breaking into their homes. Without a gun the crime would still happen and the homeowner is much more likely to end up dead because the intruder will probably have a gun.

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05-06-2012, 01:13 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(05-06-2012 12:24 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(05-06-2012 12:13 PM)morondog Wrote:  Interesting if true. Saw this on the Michael Moore film. He irritates me, but it seemed legit?
You mean this scene?



I'm kind of skeptical whether it really is this easy to get a weapon in the U.S., which is why I will do more research on the subject later on.
This must be extremely rare. I've never seen anything like this before. I still don't see it as a big deal. They live in an area where firearms are popular and are using it as a marketing tool to gain new members. And rifles are much easier to purchase than pistols. You can go to Wal Mart and buy shot guns and rifles. Criminals generally don't prefer bolt action rifles.

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05-06-2012, 01:32 PM (This post was last modified: 05-06-2012 01:37 PM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(05-06-2012 12:24 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(05-06-2012 12:13 PM)morondog Wrote:  Interesting if true. Saw this on the Michael Moore film. He irritates me, but it seemed legit?
You mean this scene?



I'm kind of skeptical whether it really is this easy to get a weapon in the U.S., which is why I will do more research on the subject later on.
Michael Moore is an asshole. He shot that scene like they were just handing out guns there left and right.

Moore actually had to open a CD and deposit $1000, then do the background check for that gun, just like you would at any other FFL.

He then had to come back in the next day and pick up the gun, because the '500 guns on hand at anytime' were in a vault 200 miles away from there.

I admit that a gun is a silly thing to give away when you open an CD account and the question he asks the teller at the end is funny. But he still is misleading the audience about what went on there.

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05-06-2012, 02:09 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(05-06-2012 09:07 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(05-06-2012 08:17 AM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  This thread seems to be full of people who don't understand the concept that gun freedom allows everyone to have a weapon--not just themselves. And "everyone" opens up a very large continuum of possible idiots that will create serious problems. So let me point out: I really don't care how responsible you are with a gun, there are enough people who are not.
200,000,000 Americans drive automobiles, yet we have 25,000 motor vehicle fatalities every year and thousands more accidents and injuries. Those injuries and fatalities might never have happened if we never allowed people to drive cars. The fact that a few people will abuse their freedoms does NOT give the government a license to deprive others of their rights and freedoms. Freedom requires responsibility and demands that its constituents display discipline. We don't punish the general population for the failings and shortcomings of a few. We do, however, punish those who choose to abuse their freedoms, as it should be.
Quickly given the choice of what you would rather have/need in today's modern world, I could only assume you would take the car. Despite the deaths that are attributed to car accidents, the practicality and usefulness out weight the downside.

And as for Chas, come on man, I am not an idiot. Do I really need to decipher every comment I make as to address that I am only talking about of age people who are not crazy? We are talking about the current situation of gun control in places like the US. Of course I am not talking about children, felons, and crazies.

The main issue is, the practicality of a weapon does not out weight the negative side effects of allowing an entire society to own one.

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05-06-2012, 02:45 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
Comments on Earmuffs's point from a while back?

Item: Two kids fighting, one kid tries to shoot other, hits another kid who dies.

Is it legal for a kid to bring a firearm to school? For example, if he is a member of the shooting club I imagine the answer would be yes. Is it legal for a kid to carry a gun capable of killing someone? Would you attribute the accidental death to a failure of the law or to a failure of the kid, i.e. he should have known better, or he deliberately did an illegal act, or his parents were negligent which allowed the kid, who is after all a kid, to get his hands on a deadly weapon which he shouldn't have possessed?

Since this school shooting is an on going problem, what solutions have been tried? 'Cos that seems to be the very public thing which you guys who don't like gun laws should address? The anti gun guys are saying "with stricter laws we can make this kind of thing not happen any more". That seems like a good idea. So, if you oppose the stricter laws, can you offer a suggestion for a better approach to preventing these school shootings, which give the anti-gun lobby a very powerful emotional appeal...
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05-06-2012, 03:33 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
If we're really gonna humour the rights/responsible ownership BS then seriously, why can't I own heavy weaponry such as a tank, missile launcher, nuke?

Is the that not limiting my freedom and denying a responsible owner as well?

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