Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
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05-06-2012, 03:42 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(05-06-2012 02:09 PM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  And as for Chas, come on man, I am not an idiot. Do I really need to decipher every comment I make as to address that I am only talking about of age people who are not crazy? We are talking about the current situation of gun control in places like the US. Of course I am not talking about children, felons, and crazies.

The main issue is, the practicality of a weapon does not out weight the negative side effects of allowing an entire society to own one.
You keep using words like 'all' and 'everyone' and 'entire'. If that is not what you mean, then say what you do mean.

I'm guessing, then, that you mean that guns should not be generally available to normal, sane, well-adjusted people. Me, for instance. I'm not physically capable of fighting off a 250 lb. aggressive man, nor physically capable of running away. I live in a rural setting. If I call 911, it will be a while before help arrives.

You want to deny me my right of self-defense.

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05-06-2012, 03:44 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(05-06-2012 03:33 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  If we're really gonna humour the rights/responsible ownership BS then seriously, why can't I own heavy weaponry such as a tank, missile launcher, nuke?

Is the that not limiting my freedom and denying a responsible owner as well?
No, it's not. Those are not practical weapons for self-defense. Your hyperbole is getting tiresome.

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05-06-2012, 04:06 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(05-06-2012 03:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it's not. Those are not practical weapons for self-defense. Your hyperbole is getting tiresome.

1) In certain situations they are far more practical than a firearm. Hell if someone wants to run me off the road I'd rather be driving a tank than have a pistol on me.

2) Are you dismissing my point because you cannot answer it?

3) What if we apply it on a national basis? Should all countries be allowed nuclear weapons for the same reasons?

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05-06-2012, 09:09 PM (This post was last modified: 05-06-2012 09:12 PM by Chas.)
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(05-06-2012 04:06 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(05-06-2012 03:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it's not. Those are not practical weapons for self-defense. Your hyperbole is getting tiresome.

1) In certain situations they are far more practical than a firearm. Hell if someone wants to run me off the road I'd rather be driving a tank than have a pistol on me.

2) Are you dismissing my point because you cannot answer it?

3) What if we apply it on a national basis? Should all countries be allowed nuclear weapons for the same reasons?
1 - No, you stop the car, get out, and shoot the bastard.
2 - I answered your point. Those weapons are not practical for personal defense.
3 - We are not talking about nations. Please stay on point.

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05-06-2012, 10:04 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
The problem is that the cat is already out of the bag. There are too many guns available to too many people. And because control laws are not evenly distributed across the US it is very easy to get a agun just by switching states, or just going to a gun show where the registration requirements are even more lax.
My solution, keep the gun laws the way they are but put a $500 dollar tax on each bullet. Will make most people think twice before using them

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05-06-2012, 11:29 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
Chas, did you miss my last reply to a post of yours?

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06-06-2012, 12:39 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
I used to be pro-gun, concealed carry, all nine yards. Now, I hardly see the point in why citizens should have them. The following are the arguments I've heard/used before.

a) Self-Defense: How many people are saved because they have guns, in reality? How many have their guns used on them instead? How many people's guns end up found by their kids, leading to an accident? In the heat of the moment, in the middle of the night, are you really going to be able to make a good judgement call? Are you positive you won't end up injuring a family member through the walls of your home (almost any gun will go through drywall like butter and 2x4s almost as easily)?

b) Hunting: Legitimate, but rules out the need for handguns, as well as semi-automatic rifles and any magazine or cartridge with a capacity greater than 5.

c) Target Practice: Fine, pellet guns for you. No need for anything lethal.

d) Protection Against Tyrannical Government: Seriously? If this is a consideration, you're fucked in the head. USMC w/ M1A1 Abrams, highly trained soldiers, snipers, helicopters, etc. will end anything a ragtag group could come up with. It might have been a possibility with the colonial Americans against the British (the much-ballyhooed example proponents use), but the technological gap between the government and the people is much wider now than before.

A few statistics are useful here:

Guns were used in 12,632 homicides in 2007, or 68.7% of all homicides.

613 accidental deaths per year by firearms, out of 123,706 overall accidental deaths.

Guns were used in 351 lawful interventions resulting in a fatality, including those by police officers.

While I would hesitate to cite specific countries with low crime rates and strict gun laws as evidence that strict gun laws reduce gun-related violent crime, the US has a huge problem with violent crime, and having easily accessible guns doesn't help.

My solution is not to take away guns from the lawful citizens, but to severely restrict their sale and availability of ammunition. Any firearm related violent crime (including using them in burglaries) would have a minimum of 20 years, no possibility of parole. Getting caught with an unlicensed firearm would be 5 years and permanent loss of ability to own or purchase firearms. Guns would all have to be registered to the individual, along with a stated need or purpose. Ammunition would be limited to 100-200 rounds per person, of any one type (rifle or handgun) and after that, the tax rate on ammo would exponentially increase (to prevent stockpiling or second-hand sales of ammo). Reloading equipment would be tracked and controlled as well, with the same restrictions per bullet or round-quantity of supplies.

Firearm privileges would require bi-annual classes, with tests having an expected passing rate of 25-30%. Failure of a test would require 3 months before retaking the test. Husbands/wives/partners would have to both pass the test in order to have firearms in a shared residence, or otherwise prove that only the permitted individual has access to the firearms.

Reporting a firearm stolen falsely (in order to get it un-registered to your name) would be punishable by 5 years and a permanent loss of firearms (and confiscation of all existing firearms in the household). Legitimate firearm theft reports would require investigation, including warrants for a house search and family/friend interviews, to prove that the firearm was actually stolen.

Basically, the idea is to make it such a pain in the ass to own firearms that only the people that take it extremely seriously would bother, weeding out the people who treat it casually and think they need a gun, so they just grab a $200 gun from Walmart and stick it in their closet. Loaded. Without a lock.

Sources:
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html


Disclosure: I still own a few guns from when I was still a Christian, gun-toting Republican... I've yet to sell them, as the local gun shops don't offer jack shit for them (I can't bear to get ripped off) and I won't sell to individuals (that would pay roughly 25% more than the gun shops). Destroying them isn't gonna happen, that'd just make my wallet sad :'(

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06-06-2012, 07:27 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(02-06-2012 02:23 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(02-06-2012 05:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  Except when you look at actual facts, you find there is no correlation between violent crime and gun control or even the number of guns.
I have to disagree with you on this matter. This series of studies shows that there is indeed a correlation between the number of firearm related crimes and the strictness of the gun laws in the respective country. You'll see that the US has a signifcantly higher amount of gun related crimes compared to countries with very strict gun control.
Please re-read my statement, i.e. " no correlation between violent crime and gun control".
How is it valid to separate out gun crime?

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06-06-2012, 07:28 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(05-06-2012 11:29 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Chas, did you miss my last reply to a post of yours?
Which one?

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06-06-2012, 08:02 AM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2012 08:09 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(06-06-2012 07:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(05-06-2012 11:29 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Chas, did you miss my last reply to a post of yours?
Which one?
This one.

(06-06-2012 07:27 AM)Chas Wrote:  Please re-read my statement, i.e. " no correlation between violent crime and gun control".
How is it valid to separate out gun crime?
Of course gun control can only affect the number of gun crimes being commited. There couldn't be a correlation between gun control and violent crimes in which no firearms have been involved.

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