Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
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11-06-2012, 10:47 AM (This post was last modified: 11-06-2012 10:50 AM by Chas.)
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(11-06-2012 08:19 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(10-06-2012 10:33 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  I believe you have a right to self defence, but not that you need a firearm for self defence.

The vast majority of home invaders will flee from an unarmed person anyway. They know full well that if they are convicted of burglary they will be out again pretty quickly, if they hurt someone then their sentence suddenly becomes a lot longer.
And when the homeowner is armed they mysteriously become enraged, take the gun from them and kill them with it?? Just using your logic.
What? I don't understand the comment.

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11-06-2012, 10:55 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(10-06-2012 03:30 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  I think 99% of confrontations wouldn't even require that. They would simply require me to be there. Like I said, most home invaders want to avoid confrontation at all costs. Once they attack someone they're likely to see their sentence at least double. Plus, most people would call the police before confronting the person. That means that by the time the confrontation happens the police are already on their way. Again, why would someone waste precious time attacking you, they'd get the hell outta there.

You must live in a very different society to me. Over here home invaders tend to be after valuables whilst avoiding repercussions at all costs. According to what I'm hearing on this thread, on your side of the Atlantic home invaders tend to want nothing more than to harm anyone they come across with no regard for the consequences.
Criminals don't generally think normally. They don't value others' rights and they don't have much, if any, impulse control. The behavior of a criminal is not predictable and it's not very rational.

I think your 99% is far too high.

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11-06-2012, 01:34 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(11-06-2012 10:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-06-2012 08:19 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  And when the homeowner is armed they mysteriously become enraged, take the gun from them and kill them with it?? Just using your logic.
What? I don't understand the comment.
Hughsie says that a vast number of prowlers run away when confronted by an unarmed homeowner, but a homeowner with a gun might have it seized by an angry burglar instead.

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11-06-2012, 04:44 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(11-06-2012 01:34 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(11-06-2012 10:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  What? I don't understand the comment.
Hughsie says that a vast number of prowlers run away when confronted by an unarmed homeowner, but a homeowner with a gun might have it seized by an angry burglar instead.
I suppose that's possible - if you aren't prepared to pull the trigger. But then you shouldn't have the gun in the first place.

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12-06-2012, 08:38 AM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2012 08:46 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
I've always advocated for the right to keep and bear arms but this story really has nothing to do with that and is one of the chief reasons I have a love-hate relationship with the NRA.

From Bloomberg News Service. Click on text to read full story.

NRA-Backed Law Spells Out When Indianans May Open Fire on Police

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/2012...olice.html

First off, I want to say that I favor the owning guns. With proper training and preparedness, a gun can be a real asset in a life threatening emergency. Second I fully support the right to use deadly force if one believes one is in immediate peril of life or limb from an assailant. This includes the use of deadly force against a corrupt police officer if you feel your life is in endangered by him and there are cases such as the murder of Kelly Thomas by Fullerton police or the BART cop shooting in San Francisco, CA, where shooting a rouge peace officer would be justified because they committed cold blooded murder. I DO NOT, however, advocate the use of deadly force against a police officer or other civil just because they are there on your property and you believe their actions are illegal. Self defense means self defense, NOT you have a gun so go play cop and decide what the law is and enforce it. I'm getting really tired of the NRA's bullshit about this stuff. It's symptomatic of a building right wing paranoia in this nation about every action the government takes is dangerous and untrustable.

Now I also like the NRA, in that they do pull a lot of weight and hold people that try to violate the Constitution accountable. In 2005, when the NOPD became an obscene, power hungry monster after Katrina, breaking down doors and confiscating guns illegally, the NRA took their ass to the pavement in court for this and the NOPD deserved what it got. You don't get to break the law or violate the Constitution just because you have a badge. You are civil servants. You work for We the People and follow the rules we set for you.

The problem is that the NRA is largely backed the Right Wing, which, in recent times, has become so detached from sanity and reality that I hardly recognize it anymore. Fueled by paranoia and distrust of a 'black president' and secretly wanting an America that resembles an 1950s era SitCom, they are framing themselves as a disenfranchised minority which is at war with the system. And they are slowly trying to create and worm in legislation which gives them legal authority - or a legal excuse - to make war against these 'communists' and their system of 'jack booted thugs' and 'activist judges' who faithfully interpret the Constitution or serve as law enforcement. The NRA is practically bankrolled by these assholes and I'm renouncing my membership with them as they no longer represent my interests in gun ownership, the 2nd Amendment, or the defense of Liberty. Wayne LaPierre, you are a fucking asshole for supporting this bill.

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18-06-2012, 02:37 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
If they used the real assault weapons definition, I would probably support banning those.

But based on domestic data I've seen on rifles, handgun, and the such. I'd say I'm fine with them and right to carry laws. Not a fan of stand your ground laws, though - at least not some of the overly general ones. Also, I'd have to see some data on information about the effect of our gun making on places like Africa and Mexico. Here, guns are cheap enough that normal people can afford them. In places like that, only criminals can get their hands on them. Unless we give everyone there guns. One problem I see with gun bans is that if you can secretly get them from nearby areas, then the criminals have them but not normal people. It seems only an international ban could get around this.... maybe someday....
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18-06-2012, 04:03 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
Both my parents where murdered with a shoelace. I want to have a ban on shoelaces as well... Blink

No, no kidding...
A few weeks ago I enrolled for a gun license. Why? Well... It's just something that I want to do. No more, no less. I want to step into the IPSC. It looks fun.
Scenario's where you could use your gun in self-defence aren't all that realistic. It's not because you can play them out in your head that they also will happen that way. Then again, if you own a gun, then at least you have the option to use it.

Gun laws are really strict in Belgium ever since in 2007 a 18 year old asshat walked into a gunshop, bought himself a 30-06 leaver-ation rifle and shot a 2 year old girl and her black nanny just an hour after that. Apparently, it was a deed of impulse.

The law over here is as follows:
You want to shoot? fine. first you need an excerpt of your criminal record (it needs to be spotless. duh!) Register yourself at a shooting club of your choice. Follow their internship during 6 months. You'll get a theoretical and a practical course and are instructed about safety, law, models, first aid and target practice. In those 6 months you need to register 6 practical shooting sessions. After that you can ask for a test where you can prove you are able to handle the weapon categories of your choice (pistol, revolver, smoothbore or rifle). This is how you get your license. with that license you can buy anything chambered for .22LR without registration. If you want more firepower, you need to register this at your local police station.

Practising shooting is done with weapons provided by the shooting club until you can buy your own. You need to maintain your license by registering your visit to the range and gong there at least 3 times every trimester. With the proper paperwork you can own any gun you like. Ammo is restricted to FMJ and wadcutters.

I'ts quite a hassle but if you like guns, it's not much more work then getting your drivers license.

Personally, I think a restriction on guns is a good idea. Some people shouldn't own a gun. Then again, some people shouldn't own a car either. Every year there are more deaths in traffic accidents then there are by gun accidents. I'm waiting for the gouvernement to treat cars the same way as they treat guns. Remember: guns kill people and spoons make you fat
LoL Laughat Some peopole can't seem to handle freedom very well. Gun owners In Belgium where the first to become victims of an other man's irresponsibilities.


I personally dream of owning a CZ 75 Kadett for target practice and a FN FNP-9 for IPSC

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Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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19-06-2012, 08:22 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(18-06-2012 04:03 AM)Observer Wrote:  Both my parents where murdered with a shoelace. I want to have a ban on shoelaces as well... Blink

No, no kidding...
A few weeks ago I enrolled for a gun license. Why? Well... It's just something that I want to do. No more, no less. I want to step into the IPSC. It looks fun.
Scenario's where you could use your gun in self-defence aren't all that realistic. It's not because you can play them out in your head that they also will happen that way. Then again, if you own a gun, then at least you have the option to use it.

Gun laws are really strict in Belgium ever since in 2007 a 18 year old asshat walked into a gunshop, bought himself a 30-06 leaver-ation rifle and shot a 2 year old girl and her black nanny just an hour after that. Apparently, it was a deed of impulse.

The law over here is as follows:
You want to shoot? fine. first you need an excerpt of your criminal record (it needs to be spotless. duh!) Register yourself at a shooting club of your choice. Follow their internship during 6 months. You'll get a theoretical and a practical course and are instructed about safety, law, models, first aid and target practice. In those 6 months you need to register 6 practical shooting sessions. After that you can ask for a test where you can prove you are able to handle the weapon categories of your choice (pistol, revolver, smoothbore or rifle). This is how you get your license. with that license you can buy anything chambered for .22LR without registration. If you want more firepower, you need to register this at your local police station.

Practising shooting is done with weapons provided by the shooting club until you can buy your own. You need to maintain your license by registering your visit to the range and gong there at least 3 times every trimester. With the proper paperwork you can own any gun you like. Ammo is restricted to FMJ and wadcutters.

I'ts quite a hassle but if you like guns, it's not much more work then getting your drivers license.

Personally, I think a restriction on guns is a good idea. Some people shouldn't own a gun. Then again, some people shouldn't own a car either. Every year there are more deaths in traffic accidents then there are by gun accidents. I'm waiting for the gouvernement to treat cars the same way as they treat guns. Remember: guns kill people and spoons make you fat
LoL Laughat Some peopole can't seem to handle freedom very well. Gun owners In Belgium where the first to become victims of an other man's irresponsibilities.


I personally dream of owning a CZ 75 Kadett for target practice and a FN FNP-9 for IPSC
And this is my primary complaint with most gun control schemes. They're really only hamstringing the people who want to shoot at a target range with a bunch of bullshit hoops to jump through and a criminal just laughs at while he polishes his shiny new FN High Power which he traded 20g of crack for on the street.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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27-06-2012, 11:40 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
Just for laughs, here are a couple of clips from Da Ali G Show on guns and weapons.








"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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