Gun Control thoughts
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10-08-2016, 02:02 AM
Gun Control thoughts
Ok...here's a controversial topic. I'm not going to get crazy about expressing my personal beliefs, I just want to hear some opinions/justifications after I present some facts. There is, inevitably, some opinion wound up in here, but just about everything is easily verifiable with some online research, and is either absolutely true or at least very much arguable.

I live, and was born in, Texas. I grew up in a gun culture. This doesn't mean what many liberals believe it means- nor what the media likes to pretend it means.
For most of us in Texas, in the rural areas at least, guns are just like your wallet or your cell phone or your car keys. Just a tool, that you can also have fun with, like your cell phone. Much like your car or tractor or credit card, a person not trained in the proper use, or who lacks discipline, can cause damage to himself and others..
I was taught firearms safety at a very early age...I'm guessing around 5 or 6- I know I shot my first deer at age 7, anyway. I was sitting in my father's lap in a deer blind, freezing my ass off at the time.
Guns- or at least, the activities we engaged in which required the use of guns- were/are a great bonding experience for fathers and sons, brothers and sisters, friends, anyone. Shooting beer cans or paper targets, skeet, or steel silhouettes is great fun, and requires self discipline, practice, dedication, and responsibility- all things Texans believe their kids should learn.
Unless we are engaged in training for self defense, or in the act of defending ourselves, we honestly don't think of guns as "killing tools" at all. They are so much more than that- and an AR-15 is not an "Assault rifle" to us...it's just another semi automatic rifle. Because of it's military heritage, it looks cool, which everyone likes- not necessarily the AR-15 but rather, everyone likes an attractive firearm, whether it be stainless steel or blue, nylon or beautiful wood, whatever- it's just personal taste, just like cars.
One thing military based firearms have that people like is durability. I have dozens of guns in my safe I would choose over an AR-15 if I decided to go insane and shoot people from a tower...and most are hunting lineage, not military. The AR-15 and other firearms that come to us through the military pipeline, if you will, have one attribute that most find attractive, and it has nothing to do with killing people. Durability. They typically require less daily maintenance, have more rust and water resistance, can handle being dirty in the field better, etc. Soldiers operate in difficult environments without the ability to clean their firearms as often as they'd like, so the guns they carry reflect that.
I also have a number of automatic weapons. What liberals label "Machine guns", and insist none of us really need. Well..so what? Who NEEDS a Porsche 911? Who NEEDS a Lamborghini? Who NEEDS a ski boat or a jet ski or a 4 wheeler or a dune buggy? These things kill people all the time, right? Who is the government to tell me what I can or can't own for my own amusement, historical curiosity, competition, whatever? I'm not hurting anyone. I pay the federal tax on automatic weapons and silencers/suppressors. Beyond that...leave me alone.
Automatic weapons are TERRIBLE for mass killing. I know, Hollywood has a lot of folks convinced that you just hold the trigger down and waive the gun back and forth, and an entire crowd will drop at your feet. Bullshit. Come out to my place and I'll let you try it.
One...recoil. After about three rounds, unless you've had considerable training and practice, the only things in danger are birds, because the muzzle has risen and you're shooting sky.
Two...ammo. In Vietnam, the M-16 (full auto AR-15) fired approximately 200 rounds per minute. Most soldiers had 20 round magazines. So after 6 seconds, he had to stop, eject the empty magazine, pull a loaded one from his mag holder, insert it in the rifle, and- since it's hard to count rounds in full auto, he usually fired it empty- pull and release the charging handle (bolt) before he was ready to fire again. For another 6 seconds of sustained fire.
The average number of shots per kill in VN was 50,000. Yep. FIFTY THOUSAND ROUNDS FIRED FOR EVERY VIET KONG/ North VM killed in the war. LOL...hand me my bolt action .338 Lapua please, and find me some high ground.

Estimates in Gulf war one are 250,000 rounds expended for each insurgent killed.

Worrying about "machine guns" is amateur hour. Silly.

But finally, three...maintenance. The average guy about to go try to kill people for no apparent reason is not a gun nut- he doesn't own guns before this obsession, and he almost NEVER obtains them legally. Machine guns are notorious for jams/ feed problems/ misfires if not well taken care of and often tuned, just like a carburetor or a musical instrument.

So I'm constantly hearing what violent, inbred, racist, gun crazy, brain dead idiots Texans are.
Well, I'm pretty typical, as far as I know. Most of my friends have similar educational backgrounds and families, so let's use me as an admittedly inadequate reference, just for fun.
I am 50 years old, as of February of this year. I managed to retire with a healthy income 6 years ago. I'm happily married with three grown kids, two still in college, and own a small ranch and a lot of toys. I am completely debt free.
I have a master's degree in herpetology from Sul Ross. I did my undergrad in bio at the University of Texas.
I served as a pilot in the united states air force for 8 years. I flew for the airlines until retirement, and due to our lax schedules, also earned my EMT, my peace officer license, my firearms instructor's license, my state pursuit/tactical driving instructor's license, my class D skydiving license, and my open water scuba diving license. I hate to sit around.
I served as a deputy sheriff for 8 years, 4 of those on SWAT, mostly as an element leader on a narcotics entry team. I was sent to school and became the team armorer. I have since become a master gunsmith.
My wife and kids can all handle any firearm you hand them, easily. I have a large collection, as do most of my friends, so chances are my kids have shot one before, but if not, they can easily and safely sort it out.
I have a 300 yd range here at my home. Neither I nor any of my friends and family have ever had an accident with a firearm.

As for Texas being "fraught with danger" due to all the guns and idiots, here is the most recent completed FBI’s Uniform Crime Report. You'll notice, Texas is not on the list. If you scan the entire report, you will eventually come to "Tiny cities", where you will find two small Texas towns listed, both overrun with illegal mexican aliens, who commit 90% of the violent crime in these locales.

I'm just wondering...this seems so different from what Hillary would have us believe. Actually- statistically- it is apparently much more dangerous to be a friend of the Clinton's than it is to live in Texas. Fascinating.

Big Cities With The Highest Violent Crime Rates

Detroit, Michigan 1988.63
Memphis, Tennessee 1740.51
Oakland, California 1685.39
St. Louis, Missouri 1678.73
Milwaukee, Wisconsin 1476.41
Baltimore, Maryland 1338.54
Cleveland, Ohio 1334.35
Stockton, California 1331.47
Indianapolis, Indiana 1254.66
Kansas City, Missouri 1251.45



Big Cities With The Highest Murder Rates

St. Louis, Missouri 49.91
Detroit, Michigan 43.52
New Orleans, Louisiana 38.75
Baltimore, Maryland 33.84
Newark, New Jersey 33.32
Buffalo, New York 23.22
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 22.43
Memphis, Tennessee 21.38
Atlanta, Georgia 20.47
Cincinati, Ohio 20.16



Medium Cities With The Highest Violent Crime Rates

Birmingham, Alabama 1588.29
Little Rock, Arkanasas 1391.91
Rockford, Illinois 1234.74
Springfield, Missouri 1186.47
Lansing, Michigan 1116.76
Hartford, Connecticut 1104.50
Springfield, Massachusetts 1080.86
Springfield, Illinois 1064.45
New Haven, Connecticut 1054.37
San Bernardino, California 991.67



Medium Cities With The Highest Murder Rates

Jackson, Mississippi 35.39
Birmingham, Alabama 24.52
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 23.11
North Charleston, South Carolina 21.78
Little Rock, Arkanasas 21.69
San Bernardino, California 20.04
Richmond, Virginia 18.92
Dayton, Ohio 18.85
Inglewood, California 17.86
Montgomery, Alabama 17.48


Wonder how many will read this thru...


Cheers, y'all!
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10-08-2016, 02:31 AM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
If machine guns are so terrible for killing people and you'd rather use a "hunting lineage" gun, then why do the military use them? And why do mass killers use them?

You can learn qualities of self-discipline etc in other ways.

Your stats for expenditure of rounds per enemy killed I think aren't relevant. War is different - there's suppressing fire and all sorts of reasons why people would fire off more bullets. You're implying that to kill *anyone* I'd need to fire off 50 000 rounds?

I think the discussion rather than focusing on banning guns or not should be more about defining what problem you are trying to solve - after all mass killings are just one thing and don't really have a huge effect on the population, maybe the focus should be on lowering the murder rate - and the different approaches, pilot studies to try and judge whether or not they're likely to be effective. And not necessarily taking a gun ban off the table. Sure, it might be nice to hang on to your Porsche or Ferrari, but if everyone could buy one for cheap and there was a common crime of buying one and running down schoolkids, you can see why maybe lots of people would question if the freedom of everyone being allowed to have one was worth the cost, no matter that the large majority of Porsche owners were law abiding.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-08-2016, 02:44 AM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
Quote:If machine guns are so terrible for killing people and you'd rather use a "hunting lineage" gun, then why do the military use them? And why do mass killers use them?

Try to find cases where mass killers use them. I think you'll be surprised. And if you knew anything about what you're talking about, you'd know that the military no longer uses automatic light machine guns- they are now limited to three round burst or similar, for the reasons I stated.

Quote:You can learn qualities of self-discipline etc in other ways.

It's none of your business how I choose to learn, or teach, self discipline. Why do you feel you can dictate how I live my life based on your beliefs? Why can't I dictate how you live based on my own beliefs? Who said life was supposed to be inherently safe? Nature vehemently disagrees with you.


Quote:Sure, it might be nice to hang on to your Porsche or Ferrari, but if everyone could buy one for cheap and there was a common crime of buying one and running down schoolkids


Everyone can buy one for cheap and there is a common crime of using them to kill school kids? They are not cheap, background checks and substantial pocketbooks are required to buy a gun legally, and less than 0.05% of gun owners commit violent crimes with them, much less "gun down school kids".

I respect others' opinions, but please do something but listen to bullshit liberal media propaganda before replying...it's just tiresome.
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10-08-2016, 02:54 AM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
The Titanic Popcorn

There is already a gun thread for enthusiasts.

This is bloody stupid. Facepalm

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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10-08-2016, 02:57 AM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
... Sigh. I'm not one of you amigo, not American. I merely comment from the outside. I'm not sure if you're aware that you're completely right, in all things on which you have an opinion, so I'm just letting you know now.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-08-2016, 03:57 AM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
Holy fuck, there is no "controversy", there is simply one lobby protecting a flooded market. There are simply paranoid fucks who think we can still use rotary phone laws in an age of cell phones. The gun makers and NRA love the fear between classes and parties and races an government, that way they can sell more to both.

You can sit there and blame one segment of a population all the fuck you want, but that does not do shit to reduce gun deaths. FYI I live out in the sticks and I hear about gun deaths locally too. I never get a good answer from the paranoid gun worshipers as to how many would be enough. We already have more guns than our 300,000,000 humans living here. Do we stop at 500,000,000? How about 1 billion guns?

It is a fucking myth that the left wants to create a fascist state. It is a myth that liberals don't own guns. Wanting to keep them out of the wrong hands and banning big clips and spray weapons DOES NOT mean ban all guns. That is fucking bullshit fear the NRA has peddled for decades.

Most gun deaths happen in the home, not in the streets and not from mass shootings. You are far more likely to get injured or die from a gun in the home than you would protecting yourself from a stranger in the street. I am sick of the right claiming they want to keep them out of the wrong hands, then when we agree, they scream at any suggestion of doing exactly that.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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10-08-2016, 03:59 AM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
Ha! Newbie. This is why. Use the enthusiast thread. No arguing aloud there. And do a search next time.

No offence Brian.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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10-08-2016, 04:16 AM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
(10-08-2016 03:59 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Ha! Newbie. This is why. Use the enthusiast thread. No arguing aloud there. And do a search next time.

No offence Brian.

Just like religious debate, this isn't my first rodeo. This is simply debating another religion where an object is their god. The facts have been consistent for decades in that gun injury and death is far more likely to injure someone in the home. Nobody fucking needs big clips or spray weapons. Nobody is calling for a fascist state. Nobody is calling to get rid of every single firearm. That is simply fear mongering bullshit peddled by the NRA.

"It's not the gun" is bullshit. It is like when Muslims dodge with "It's not the Quran". Certainly an object has no magic powers to act by itself. But attitudes and lack of pragmatism and introspection combined with blind protection of it, does allow far too many to have horrible attitudes that create long term bad conditions. More guns isn't going to solve shit, that is just bullshit.

What we need is to make less. What we need is longer waiting periods. What we need is better vetting to insure dangerous people like mentally ill and ideological politically or religiously violent people don't get them. What we need is better investment in ALL communities urban, suburban and rural for both the middle class and working poor. I defy anyone reading this last paragraph to find the words "ban all guns".....YOU WONT FIND THAT.

There is no political party oath to own a firearm and liberals own them as well so the bullshit slur that the left wants to ban every single one is just that, bullshit. We have a gun violence problem in this country and it is due to making too many and making them too easy to get.

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10-08-2016, 04:36 AM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
(10-08-2016 04:16 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(10-08-2016 03:59 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Ha! Newbie. This is why. Use the enthusiast thread. No arguing aloud there. And do a search next time.

No offence Brian.

Just like religious debate, this isn't my first rodeo. This is simply debating another religion where an object is their god. The facts have been consistent for decades in that gun injury and death is far more likely to injure someone in the home. Nobody fucking needs big clips or spray weapons. Nobody is calling for a fascist state. Nobody is calling to get rid of every single firearm. That is simply fear mongering bullshit peddled by the NRA.

"It's not the gun" is bullshit. It is like when Muslims dodge with "It's not the Quran". Certainly an object has no magic powers to act by itself. But attitudes and lack of pragmatism and introspection combined with blind protection of it, does allow far too many to have horrible attitudes that create long term bad conditions. More guns isn't going to solve shit, that is just bullshit.

What we need is to make less. What we need is longer waiting periods. What we need is better vetting to insure dangerous people like mentally ill and ideological politically or religiously violent people don't get them. What we need is better investment in ALL communities urban, suburban and rural for both the middle class and working poor. I defy anyone reading this last paragraph to find the words "ban all guns".....YOU WONT FIND THAT.

There is no political party oath to own a firearm and liberals own them as well so the bullshit slur that the left wants to ban every single one is just that, bullshit. We have a gun violence problem in this country and it is due to making too many and making them too easy to get.

I can`t believe that you are still advocating for ban on all guns.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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10-08-2016, 04:51 AM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
(10-08-2016 04:36 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(10-08-2016 04:16 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Just like religious debate, this isn't my first rodeo. This is simply debating another religion where an object is their god. The facts have been consistent for decades in that gun injury and death is far more likely to injure someone in the home. Nobody fucking needs big clips or spray weapons. Nobody is calling for a fascist state. Nobody is calling to get rid of every single firearm. That is simply fear mongering bullshit peddled by the NRA.

"It's not the gun" is bullshit. It is like when Muslims dodge with "It's not the Quran". Certainly an object has no magic powers to act by itself. But attitudes and lack of pragmatism and introspection combined with blind protection of it, does allow far too many to have horrible attitudes that create long term bad conditions. More guns isn't going to solve shit, that is just bullshit.

What we need is to make less. What we need is longer waiting periods. What we need is better vetting to insure dangerous people like mentally ill and ideological politically or religiously violent people don't get them. What we need is better investment in ALL communities urban, suburban and rural for both the middle class and working poor. I defy anyone reading this last paragraph to find the words "ban all guns".....YOU WONT FIND THAT.

There is no political party oath to own a firearm and liberals own them as well so the bullshit slur that the left wants to ban every single one is just that, bullshit. We have a gun violence problem in this country and it is due to making too many and making them too easy to get.

I can`t believe that you are still advocating for ban on all guns.

You'll still be able to own one that fires those little red suction cups. Otherwise only criminals would be able to get suction cup dart guns and the honest, law-abiding citizens would be at their mercy.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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