Gun Control thoughts
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11-08-2016, 11:45 AM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
(11-08-2016 11:24 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Yarrr..

And 2 times nada is still nada, eh??

Then again, if you can double your salary, who am I to stand in the way! I just want a taste of that hefty double naught income you'll be bringing in...say 10%?

Who says math skills are dead!?
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11-08-2016, 01:38 PM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
I have never really considered gun control until coming to this forum. I live in the People's Republic of Maryland which has had a travel advisory from the NRA forever. But I think I have started to develop an opinion. I am tending towards it being a local issue but it only works in one direction, that of further restriction.

States have the right to define their own regulations but they cannot relax Federal Law.
Counties have the right to define their own regulations but they cannot relax State Law.
Municipalities have the right to define their own regulations but they cannot relax County Law.
Households have the right to define their own rules but they cannot relax Municipal Codes.

Not sure whether communities like Homeowner's Associations have the right to declare themselves as gun-free zones in their bylaws or not.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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11-08-2016, 01:59 PM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
Quote:States have the right to define their own regulations but they cannot relax Federal Law.
Counties have the right to define their own regulations but they cannot relax State Law.
Municipalities have the right to define their own regulations but they cannot relax County Law.
Households have the right to define their own rules but they cannot relax Municipal Codes.

Not sure whether communities like Homeowner's Associations have the right to declare themselves as gun-free zones in their bylaws or not.

I think about this very thing often...I agree that it seems wrong to place a "global" (if you will) law in place when places and opinions and requirements differ.

Where it really gets complicated, for me, is...ok, States cannot relax federal law, but what if a state- or group of states- feel that the federal law is wrong, or too constrictive, or unconstitutional? Well, in that case it goes before a federal court to determine if the federal government is overstepping it's bounds. Hmm...conflict of interest here, perhaps?

I thought one of the...tenants, I suppose...of our country (The US) was that the federal government would NOT be all-powerful and control the states invasively. It seems to me that the current government is out of control- if the president is doing what the people want, why can't he go through the channels the constitution allows him to use, instead of issuing executive orders for everything? Executive Orders were put in place, primarily, so the president could make decisions in time of crisis, where expediency was key. Where there simply wasn't time to go through channels. Yet now it's being wielded (and not just by Obama) as a sword, to bypass the checks and balances of our system of government. I...disagree, with that paradigm.
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11-08-2016, 02:12 PM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
(11-08-2016 01:59 PM)The Dark One Wrote:  
Quote:States have the right to define their own regulations but they cannot relax Federal Law.
Counties have the right to define their own regulations but they cannot relax State Law.
Municipalities have the right to define their own regulations but they cannot relax County Law.
Households have the right to define their own rules but they cannot relax Municipal Codes.

Not sure whether communities like Homeowner's Associations have the right to declare themselves as gun-free zones in their bylaws or not.

I think about this very thing often...I agree that it seems wrong to place a "global" (if you will) law in place when places and opinions and requirements differ.

Where it really gets complicated, for me, is...ok, States cannot relax federal law, but what if a state- or group of states- feel that the federal law is wrong, or too constrictive, or unconstitutional? Well, in that case it goes before a federal court to determine if the federal government is overstepping it's bounds. Hmm...conflict of interest here, perhaps?

I thought one of the...tenants, I suppose...of our country (The US) was that the federal government would NOT be all-powerful and control the states invasively. It seems to me that the current government is out of control- if the president is doing what the people want, why can't he go through the channels the constitution allows him to use, instead of issuing executive orders for everything? Executive Orders were put in place, primarily, so the president could make decisions in time of crisis, where expediency was key. Where there simply wasn't time to go through channels. Yet now it's being wielded (and not just by Obama) as a sword, to bypass the checks and balances of our system of government. I...disagree, with that paradigm.

Couple of ideas/observations here:

(1) I sort of agree with your reservations about executive orders, but I also think that sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. In the good old days (or so I like to tell myself, anyway), politicians used to be willing to compromise for the good of all. Now they're having none of that. The government has become so rigidly partisan that they're in perpetual gridlock. Nothing ever gets done because neither party is willing to give an inch -- even when they agree with the other party's proposal in principle. But heaven forbid that we be seen "agreeing with the enemy!" Sometimes I feel like a complete purge of the government might be the best idea. Get a whole new bunch of people in there and order them to work together, or else.

(2) I could swear I remember back a while (maybe as long as 20 or 30 years ago), that some city or county passed an anti-gun ordinance (it was illegal for anyone in that city to own a gun), and some other city went the other way and passed an ordinance that required every resident to own a gun! I can't remember which city it was, except that it was in an area where just about everyone was pro-gun anyway, so it wasn't much of a controversy. But it was amusing.
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11-08-2016, 02:28 PM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2016 02:37 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Gun Control thoughts
(11-08-2016 01:59 PM)The Dark One Wrote:  Where it really gets complicated, for me, is...ok, States cannot relax federal law, but what if a state- or group of states- feel that the federal law is wrong, or too constrictive, or unconstitutional? Well, in that case it goes before a federal court to determine if the federal government is overstepping it's bounds. Hmm...conflict of interest here, perhaps?

That's kind of an insult to federal judges who have a sworn duty to protect the Constitution and not the current executive branch administration. They don't get paid nearly as much as they could in the private sector ($200K vs Yuge Money). And they ain't gonna get fired or demoted or pee-pee smacked for their judicial opinions regardless of how contrary they are to the current administration. I mean that's what they get paid for.

Now there are a number of state-appointed or elected state court judges or AGs who are not bound by the same ethical code of conduct that federal judges are. Texas' AG Paxton is a prime example. These folk can be as partisan as they want without fear of retribution. They are the ones with a conflict of interest. Not the honorary public servants who fill the federal court system.

(11-08-2016 01:59 PM)The Dark One Wrote:  I thought one of the...tenants,

Normally I don't go all Vosur Grammar Nazi on people but it took me a bit to realize you meant "tenets" not "tenants".

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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11-08-2016, 02:32 PM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
Quote:Sometimes I feel like a complete purge of the government might be the best idea. Get a whole new bunch of people in there and order them to work together, or else.

I actually agree with everything you said...I think the "exigent circumstances" that allow executive orders to be used should have been better defined, perhaps.

Honestly, if I had not been in combat in my life, if I had never exchanged gunfire with another human being...I would be calling for a coup. I agree that a purge sounds great, but these people have it MADE...they aren't going to voluntarily step down! And I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but I'm really beginning to wonder if our votes actually count. Armed uprising may be the only way to ever see this purge...and yet, as a combat veteran, it's very difficult to justify what that actually means.

Remember the old curse, I've seen it attributed to the Chinese as well as the Arabs, so I don't know who owns it, but the curse is "May you live in interesting times".

I finally understand that.
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11-08-2016, 02:40 PM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
Quote:That's kind of an insult to federal judges who have a sworn duty to protect the Constitution and not the current executive branch administration.

I have the utmost respect for the good ones- I know there are federal judges who try hard, I do.

I don't know if you have ever worked for the federal government, but...it is eye opening. I swear to you, I am absolutely positive, that some deep research would uncover a surprising number with large numbered accounts in Grand Cayman or Switzerland.

I think that's the main reason I have gotten pretty anti-government. I saw so much graft and bribery and nepotism, all out in the open, basically- they are so confident in their positions they don't even worry.

The good ones are certainly there, fighting the good fight. But almost everyone has a price, or a trigger, or some form of leverage available. Politicians revel in this crap.
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11-08-2016, 02:42 PM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
(11-08-2016 02:32 PM)The Dark One Wrote:  
Quote:Sometimes I feel like a complete purge of the government might be the best idea. Get a whole new bunch of people in there and order them to work together, or else.

I actually agree with everything you said...I think the "exigent circumstances" that allow executive orders to be used should have been better defined, perhaps.

Honestly, if I had not been in combat in my life, if I had never exchanged gunfire with another human being...I would be calling for a coup. I agree that a purge sounds great, but these people have it MADE...they aren't going to voluntarily step down! And I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but I'm really beginning to wonder if our votes actually count. Armed uprising may be the only way to ever see this purge...and yet, as a combat veteran, it's very difficult to justify what that actually means.

Remember the old curse, I've seen it attributed to the Chinese as well as the Arabs, so I don't know who owns it, but the curse is "May you live in interesting times".

I finally understand that.

I think we could see a purge of sorts just by the voters getting fed up with the current government. Something like this happened a while back (in the 90s, maybe?) when there was a surge of anti-incumbent feeling and a lot of long-term senators and congressmen lost their jobs -- including some really good people. I agree they won't voluntarily give up those jobs, but if they're voted out, they don't have much choice. We can only hope -- although even now, there are some good people in there that I would be sorry to see lost.

I definitely don't want to see any sort of violent revolution or coup. Even when such a thing is direly needed, it's always ugly. And I don't think things are nearly that bad yet. But I wouldn't mind seeing the voters shake things up a bit.
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11-08-2016, 02:43 PM
RE: Gun Control thoughts
Quote:Normally I don't go all Vosur Grammar Nazi on people but it took me a bit to realize you meant "tenets" not "tenants".

Oops! Trying to go too fast. Feel free to grammar Nazi, I'm anal retentive about that sort of thing. I hate it when someone has something intelligent to say but says it so poorly that they just wasted everyone's time. What are they teaching in schools these days?
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11-08-2016, 03:23 PM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2016 03:42 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Gun Control thoughts
(11-08-2016 02:40 PM)The Dark One Wrote:  I don't know if you have ever worked for the federal government, but...it is eye opening.

Going on 32 years now. GS 0854 15-10.

(11-08-2016 02:40 PM)The Dark One Wrote:  I swear to you, I am absolutely positive, that some deep research would uncover a surprising number with large numbered accounts in Grand Cayman or Switzerland.

And now you are indirectly and likely unknowingly impugning my ethics and character by association. You need to be more discriminating in what you find "absolutely positive". We police our own. We do not have accounts in the Grand Caymans or Switzerland.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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