Gun Control
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30-09-2013, 06:45 AM
RE: Gun Control
The Times Article on Children and Accidental Gun Deaths

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/chi...html?_r=1&

A short yahoo synopsis of the same article.

http://news.yahoo.com/child-gun-deaths-a...46857.html




These are not all cases of improper storage nor are they all cases of being exposed to guns for the first time in an anti-gun household. In one of the stories, an 11 year old boy is excited for the beginning of his gun safety classes before accidentally discharging a weapon and killing his sister.


Did these kinds of things factor into the OP's post about costs vs benefits?

Evolve
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30-09-2013, 06:19 PM
RE: Gun Control
(30-09-2013 06:45 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The Times Article on Children and Accidental Gun Deaths

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/chi...html?_r=1&

A short yahoo synopsis of the same article.

http://news.yahoo.com/child-gun-deaths-a...46857.html




These are not all cases of improper storage nor are they all cases of being exposed to guns for the first time in an anti-gun household. In one of the stories, an 11 year old boy is excited for the beginning of his gun safety classes before accidentally discharging a weapon and killing his sister.


Did these kinds of things factor into the OP's post about costs vs benefits?

That is just so sad and unnecessary.
How do you stop irresponsible people from owning guns? (AND having children)
When I read things like this it reminds me how lucky I am living in Oz.
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01-10-2013, 12:19 PM
RE: Gun Control
(30-09-2013 06:19 PM)aurora Wrote:  How do you stop irresponsible people from owning guns? (AND having children)

I think that's a dangerous way to look at it. Remember, in the 1920's the leading liberals and intellectuals asked the same question: How to stop irresponsible people from having children. All the science and reasoning backed up their belief that we would enjoy a superior human race if we limited who could participate in the gene pool. California led the way, with 60,000 "irresponsible" people arrested and castrated. It eventually went to the Supreme Court (Buck v. Bell) in 1927, which ruled that it WAS an appropriate role of government to engineer a superior race by stopping irresponsible people from having kids. After this win, Harry Laughlin, director of the US Eugenics Records Office, promoted this system in Europe, and found a listening ear in the Nazi party. Don't forget the history. The US endorsed Naziism at first, and praised Germany for copying California's eugenics program point by point. Only after we saw how it turned out given the German's extreme efficiency, did we realize how terrible it was, and wipe the history from our collective memory.

Also, remember that while you're asking how to force them to stop doing something you don't like, they're also looking for ways to force you to stop doing something they don't like. So rather than asking how to force people to give up their free will, I would ask it a different way: What changes can be made so that they will voluntarily, of their own free will, make the changes we feel are in society's best interest? How can we educate and inform them so they understand it's in their best interest not to start pumping out babies as soon as they hit 16? And, if there are no solutions, how can we agree to disagree and tolerate their differences, like we want them to tolerate ours, and not have our respective issues impact the others?

Those are really tough questions. Saying 'lets force them to stop having guns and making babies by sending in the police' is a simple and easy, but history shows it often leads to new problems that worse than the ones you were trying to cure in the first place.
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01-10-2013, 05:12 PM
RE: Gun Control
(01-10-2013 12:19 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(30-09-2013 06:19 PM)aurora Wrote:  How do you stop irresponsible people from owning guns? (AND having children)

I think that's a dangerous way to look at it. Remember, in the 1920's the leading liberals and intellectuals asked the same question: How to stop irresponsible people from having children. All the science and reasoning backed up their belief that we would enjoy a superior human race if we limited who could participate in the gene pool. California led the way, with 60,000 "irresponsible" people arrested and castrated. It eventually went to the Supreme Court (Buck v. Bell) in 1927, which ruled that it WAS an appropriate role of government to engineer a superior race by stopping irresponsible people from having kids. After this win, Harry Laughlin, director of the US Eugenics Records Office, promoted this system in Europe, and found a listening ear in the Nazi party. Don't forget the history. The US endorsed Naziism at first, and praised Germany for copying California's eugenics program point by point. Only after we saw how it turned out given the German's extreme efficiency, did we realize how terrible it was, and wipe the history from our collective memory.

Also, remember that while you're asking how to force them to stop doing something you don't like, they're also looking for ways to force you to stop doing something they don't like. So rather than asking how to force people to give up their free will, I would ask it a different way: What changes can be made so that they will voluntarily, of their own free will, make the changes we feel are in society's best interest? How can we educate and inform them so they understand it's in their best interest not to start pumping out babies as soon as they hit 16? And, if there are no solutions, how can we agree to disagree and tolerate their differences, like we want them to tolerate ours, and not have our respective issues impact the others?

Those are really tough questions. Saying 'lets force them to stop having guns and making babies by sending in the police' is a simple and easy, but history shows it often leads to new problems that worse than the ones you were trying to cure in the first place.

Semantics. That's basically what I meant. Education is the way to go.
(I'll forgive you because you're new Smile )
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