Gun Laws In France
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14-11-2015, 12:46 PM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2015 01:05 PM by onlinebiker.)
Gun Laws In France
It was suggested on another thread that the gun laws in France failed. Terrorists seem to have no trouble whatsoever obtaining fully automatic, military grade weapons.

Someone said that "France is #11 in firearm ownership worldwide" -- implying that they have lots of guns, and these guns made no difference in the stopping of terrorism.

.....

While the numbers are true -- they are misleading. The gun laws in France are draconian - you have to go through mental testing to even own a weapon. That is - they presume guilt -- you have to prove innocence.

Then, you can't own much more than a 3 shot repeater -- and that's a major hassle.

There is no open carry. There is no concealed carry. The only way you can move a weapon is by having it disassembled and unloaded. You might as well have typewriter parts in your trunk for all the good they'll do you.

..............................

Don't pretend that they have guns for self defense - and self defense failed.

Could the French people have made a difference if they'd been carrying a gun or two? We'll never know for sure.

But, if history says anything and remembering the French Resistance in WWII -- and the bravery, resourcefulness, and skill they showed, I'd say it's a very good possibility.

A few jihadis might have caught a bullet.

.......................................

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14-11-2015, 02:29 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
Notice that the during the occupation of France during WW2, the Germans had a lot more guns and were much better at using them, but still failed to stop them. The idea behind terrorism/resistance/criminal assault/ambush is to attack a person by surprise so that even if you are attacking a UFC champion, ex US Marine armed with a high performance assault rifle, your average Joe can shoot him in the back while he search for his bus ticket with no trouble at all. Guns are offensive weapons by design. They are most powerful when used to attack people. That’s the problem with them. A few more guns would hurt the French that much, neither would a more heavy security but a few more social worker, community police and frankly a fucking plan to solve their racism problem would not hurt either. Why not try a multilevel approach?

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14-11-2015, 03:11 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
These jihadi types aren't going to stop. This is only the beginning. This was a test run and they were highly successful. This kind of operation is easily completed in any western country. A bar, restaurant, club, movie theater, concert hall. 4 jihads can walk in, block the exits and unload with whatever weapons they've acquired. Hell, our looney mass shooters have given them a fucking foolproof plan, gun free zones. And Obama is letting them in by the thousands.

Now, a suicide bomber is a little hard to stop. But if I'm not one of the first victims when the bullets start flying they're going to be meeting Allah after they get a few 10mm slugs in their ass from my Glock 29. I urge everyone to arm themselves.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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14-11-2015, 03:37 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 02:29 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Notice that the during the occupation of France during WW2, the Germans had a lot more guns and were much better at using them, but still failed to stop them. The idea behind terrorism/resistance/criminal assault/ambush is to attack a person by surprise so that even if you are attacking a UFC champion, ex US Marine armed with a high performance assault rifle, your average Joe can shoot him in the back while he search for his bus ticket with no trouble at all. Guns are offensive weapons by design. They are most powerful when used to attack people. That’s the problem with them. A few more guns would hurt the French that much, neither would a more heavy security but a few more social worker, community police and frankly a fucking plan to solve their racism problem would not hurt either. Why not try a multilevel approach?

Yes, a multi-level plan is an excellent idea and no one has suggested it isn't.

The suggestion is that one of those levels be more sensible firearms laws.

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14-11-2015, 03:56 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
3 ... 2 ... 1 ... Oh look another gun thread from the merkins.

France is not America.
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14-11-2015, 03:59 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 12:46 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  you have to go through mental testing to even own a weapon.
Seems reasonable.

(14-11-2015 12:46 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Then, you can't own much more than a 3 shot repeater -- and that's a major hassle.
Very reasonable

(14-11-2015 12:46 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  There is no open carry. There is no concealed carry.
Sounds appropriate

(14-11-2015 12:46 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The only way you can move a weapon is by having it disassembled and unloaded.
Excellent. I do like these laws.

(14-11-2015 12:46 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Could the French people have made a difference if they'd been carrying a gun or two? We'll never know for sure.
Perhaps in this incident, who knows?
But if they had gun laws like USA then their gun crimes would be through the roof. People would be getting murdered with guns everyday, shops would be getting robbed at gun point every day.
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14-11-2015, 04:05 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
Of course has anyone considered that the French populace might prefer living in a country with strict gun laws?

<watches from afar as all the gun nut heads explode with such a mind-bending concept>
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14-11-2015, 04:07 PM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2015 04:11 PM by epronovost.)
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 03:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 02:29 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Notice that the during the occupation of France during WW2, the Germans had a lot more guns and were much better at using them, but still failed to stop them. The idea behind terrorism/resistance/criminal assault/ambush is to attack a person by surprise so that even if you are attacking a UFC champion, ex US Marine armed with a high performance assault rifle, your average Joe can shoot him in the back while he search for his bus ticket with no trouble at all. Guns are offensive weapons by design. They are most powerful when used to attack people. That’s the problem with them. A few more guns would hurt the French that much, neither would a more heavy security but a few more social worker, community police and frankly a fucking plan to solve their racism problem would not hurt either. Why not try a multilevel approach?

Yes, a multi-level plan is an excellent idea and no one has suggested it isn't.

The suggestion is that one of those levels be more sensible firearms laws.

I would be interested in your statistics and studies that show that high level of guns possession reduce criminality, violent crimes, assaults and terrorism. Guns have pretty much no incidence on criminality or your ability to protect yourself from it. You have countries with a lot of guns and lots of crime and countries with a lot of guns and few crimes. I would also like to point out that if terrorist can make mass shootings in military bases where weapons are numerous and people well trained in their use(which they did), it’s not a few civilian who carry guns to watch movies that will save lives. Imagine the chaos if I guy start to shoot another guy, but since you were further away you didn't see who shot first and shoot the wrong one. Then a fourth guy think you are a bad guy and shoot you and then the police arrives and see seven people in three groups shooting in a public space. That doesn't sound great. I see those two issues as completly seperate.

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14-11-2015, 04:14 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 04:07 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 03:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yes, a multi-level plan is an excellent idea and no one has suggested it isn't.

The suggestion is that one of those levels be more sensible firearms laws.

I would be interested in your statistics and studies that show that high level of guns possession reduce criminality, violent crimes, assaults and terrorism. Guns have pretty much no incidence on criminality or your ability to protect yourself from it. You have countries with a lot of guns and lots of crime and countries with a lot of guns and few crimes. I would also like to point out that if terrorist can make mass shootings in military bases (which they did), it’s not a few civilian who carry guns to watch movies that will save lives. I see those two issues as completly seperate.

I'm not sure if more guns = less crime, but it sure levels the playing field. As for the mass shootings on the military bases, well our soldiers aren't allowed to carry firearms on base unless they're on guard duty. The vast majority of soldiers are walking around with no weapons. If they all had their firearms, do you think those mass murders would have been successful?

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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14-11-2015, 04:24 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
Would a well armed population actually do any real difference when we speak of terror?
As i see it. Terrorist aren't trying to play on a level playing field. So if there is plenty of guns around. They'll use bombs and worse they'd look into getting their hands on another plane.
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