Gun Laws In France
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16-11-2015, 10:19 AM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(16-11-2015 10:05 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 09:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  Only in an attack on a small number of people, especially by a lone shooter.

You just described most mass shootings by domestic terrorists and/or mentally unstable people. I don't know what added information this provides.

What do you call a small number? A school or theater full of people is not a small number, not everyone can be killed at once and an armed person could stop the killer.

And it has happened that one armed person has ended the threat.

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16-11-2015, 10:28 AM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(16-11-2015 10:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 10:05 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You just described most mass shootings by domestic terrorists and/or mentally unstable people. I don't know what added information this provides.

What do you call a small number? A school or theater full of people is not a small number, not everyone can be killed at once and an armed person could stop the killer.

And it has happened that one armed person has ended the threat.

And the argument remains that one incident does not offset the negative effects from our lax gun laws.

No one ever said that guns could or have never stopped terrorism, but that the odds are small, the incidents of it happening are few in number, and the benefit does not outweigh the costs of every day gun violence.

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16-11-2015, 10:35 AM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(16-11-2015 10:28 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 10:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  What do you call a small number? A school or theater full of people is not a small number, not everyone can be killed at once and an armed person could stop the killer.

And it has happened that one armed person has ended the threat.

And the argument remains that one incident does not offset the negative effects from our lax gun laws.

I don't disagree. The laws are uneven, some lax, some not.

Quote:No one ever said that guns could or have never stopped terrorism, but that the odds are small, the incidents of it happening are few in number, and the benefit does not outweigh the costs of every day gun violence.

I don't entirely disagree. But there are more than 300,000,000 guns in the hands of U.S. residents so the problems are not easily addressed.

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16-11-2015, 12:34 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
I'll just echo that I don't think gun laws or most laws will do much to prevent "terrorist" attacks. This is a step up from criminal behavior which is generally, "I want X, and to get X I will use tools Y and Z" where one of Y or Z is often firearms because they are relatively easy to come by (in America).

Terrorist attacks (which I still can't find the logic behind them) don't operate like that. They seem more along the lines of, "I want to do as much damage as possible, and I will use whatever lethal devices my network has access to to accomplish this." "Criminals" generally still want to live-in and benefit-from society as opposed to terrorists.

However, I don't think betting on the civilian hero who brandishes their weapon to save the day is worth introducing a higher gun ownership rate in a country.

If we replace the word gun with what it really is, "The ability to kill easily." Then the argument is basically, "If more people had the ability to kill easily then when somebody shows up who wants to kill a whole bunch of people, more people would be better equipped to kill that person." So yes, that's true.....but why would I want to live in a society where more people had the ability kill easily?

Overall, I don't think any focus on gun laws is useful right now. I think the appropriate course of actions is to identify the cause and attack that (in this case, religious extremism, or groups of religious extremists). Not arm your populace so they can battle the effect.

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16-11-2015, 01:06 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
One incident??????

Better go count .... That's 12 incidents where an armed person stopped A killer.... And those are not the only incidents.... It just doesn't get covered by the media.... It might make people THINK..........

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16-11-2015, 01:19 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
If the terrorists didn't have religion they would have been less likely to kill people for religious reasons. Would rather concentrate on that.
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16-11-2015, 03:52 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(16-11-2015 01:19 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  If the terrorists didn't have religion they would have been less likely to kill people for religious reasons. Would rather concentrate on that.

Problem is most people do not want to admit it is a religious problem, they truly believe ISIS is politically driven not religiously. Even Obama says it's not about Islam.

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16-11-2015, 03:58 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
For many Muslims Islam is both religion and politics.

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17-11-2015, 07:46 AM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(16-11-2015 03:58 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  For many Muslims Islam is both religion and politics.

I've known a few fundamentalist like that, too.

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17-11-2015, 08:09 AM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(17-11-2015 07:46 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 03:58 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  For many Muslims Islam is both religion and politics.

I've known a few fundamentalist like that, too.

The Koran explicitly depicts Islam both religious and political,
while the the Bible (in the NT) explicitly depicts Christianity as non-political ("Render unto Caesar...").

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