Gun Laws In France
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14-11-2015, 04:44 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
HOLY SHIT nobody gets it. Friend and foe alike invest in the global market, and that includes civilian weapons and military style weapons. Fear sells. If assholes who claim we need more guns works, the more guns we make the more opportunity the bad guys can get them too.

FEAR, we dont need more fear. We don't need the world's powers being held hostage to banks or the weapons industry. Ideology in the form of religion and nationalism allow the makers of death products to make a profit. This is Daffy playing the beagle against Foghorn, and humanity is falling for it.

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14-11-2015, 04:46 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
If more weapons worked, someone would win by now, they would, or the west would. Seems the more weapons we make the worse it gets.

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14-11-2015, 04:47 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 04:07 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 03:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yes, a multi-level plan is an excellent idea and no one has suggested it isn't.

The suggestion is that one of those levels be more sensible firearms laws.

I would be interested in your statistics and studies that show that high level of guns possession reduce criminality, violent crimes, assaults and terrorism. Guns have pretty much no incidence on criminality or your ability to protect yourself from it.

There are thousands of instances of guns protecting people from crimes every year.

Quote:You have countries with a lot of guns and lots of crime and countries with a lot of guns and few crimes. I would also like to point out that if terrorist can make mass shootings in military bases where weapons are numerous and people well trained in their use(which they did),

Um, no. On base, military personnel are not allowed to carry guns except those on police duty (MPs).

Quote:it’s not a few civilian who carry guns to watch movies that will save lives. Imagine the chaos if I guy start to shoot another guy, but since you were further away you didn't see who shot first and shoot the wrong one. Then a fourth guy think you are a bad guy and shoot you and then the police arrives and see seven people in three groups shooting in a public space. That doesn't sound great. I see those two issues as completly seperate.


I'd bet that situations are more clear-cut than that. It would have been obvious who the terrorists were in Paris.

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14-11-2015, 04:48 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 04:41 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 04:39 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Sure. But how long until they change their minds? Do you think the French populace will continue being sitting ducks, or will they eventually persuade their government, through force or elections, to let them be armed? 129 people are dead because 129 people chose to follow the law. A law that got them killed.

Terrorist attacks haven't made any difference yet to gun ownership laws. Nor will this. People like living in a gun free country. What has made a difference in the past are mass shootings in schools where gun ownership was further restricted. For example Dunblane in the UK.

As I said, France is not America.

Terrorists haven't really brought the war with ground troops into western countries until recently. If this is their new tactic, rushing into a crowded area, putting people on the ground and executing them one by one as they did in the concert hall, then this changes everything. What country will sit by and allow that to continue randomly? Only a stupid populace would allow their government to keep them unarmed under such conditions.

I imagine that if this happens a few more times, France won't be among the unarmed countries.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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14-11-2015, 04:51 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 04:25 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 04:14 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I'm not sure if more guns = less crime, but it sure levels the playing field. As for the mass shootings on the military bases, well our soldiers aren't allowed to carry firearms on base unless they're on guard duty. The vast majority of soldiers are walking around with no weapons. If they all had their firearms, do you think those mass murders would have been successful?

I actually think it forces criminal to more violence and to be more heavily armed. Supple gun laws and wider gun possession allow for easier use for them to arm themselves with untrackable weapons. Better shoot your unsuspecting victim instead of threatening her just it case she tries something funny. Guns are tools they don't have a «side» in any conflict.

Criminals already have guns, so what's your point? Consider

Quote:For military base, I think they would have been just as succesfull. They would just have prepared themselves a little bit more carefully. Terrorists don't mind getting killed as long they can bring a few with them. That's their greatest asset. Permanent perfect vigilence is impossible. Most of those terrorists were also soldier at those base at some point.

A dead terrorist can't kill people. The sooner he or she is neutralized, the less killing there is.

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14-11-2015, 05:11 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 04:27 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I've never seen a mass shooting in a gun shop, or a gun show.

Wonder why??

It's not for lack of guns.
That would be like shitting in your own back yard wouldn't it.
Gun nuts are on their best behaviour at gun shows cause they want to look at, admire and procure more guns.
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14-11-2015, 05:15 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 04:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  Criminals already have guns, so what's your point? Consider
In many countries hand guns are hard to come by. The crims generally don't have them.
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14-11-2015, 05:16 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 05:11 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 04:27 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I've never seen a mass shooting in a gun shop, or a gun show.

Wonder why??

It's not for lack of guns.
That would be like shitting in your own back yard wouldn't it.
Gun nuts are on their best behaviour at gun shows cause they want to look at, admire and procure more guns.

You know, it might be possible to have a constructive discussion if you didn't use pejoratives. Consider

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14-11-2015, 05:18 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 05:15 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 04:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  Criminals already have guns, so what's your point? Consider
In many countries hand guns are hard to come by. The crims generally don't have them.

Your source for this is ... ?

Criminals don't seem to have any problem getting weapons.

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14-11-2015, 05:24 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 12:46 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  It was suggested on another thread that the gun laws in France failed. Terrorists seem to have no trouble whatsoever obtaining fully automatic, military grade weapons.

Someone said that "France is #11 in firearm ownership worldwide" -- implying that they have lots of guns, and these guns made no difference in the stopping of terrorism.

.....

While the numbers are true -- they are misleading. The gun laws in France are draconian - you have to go through mental testing to even own a weapon. That is - they presume guilt -- you have to prove innocence.

Then, you can't own much more than a 3 shot repeater -- and that's a major hassle.

There is no open carry. There is no concealed carry. The only way you can move a weapon is by having it disassembled and unloaded. You might as well have typewriter parts in your trunk for all the good they'll do you.

..............................

Don't pretend that they have guns for self defense - and self defense failed.

Could the French people have made a difference if they'd been carrying a gun or two? We'll never know for sure.

But, if history says anything and remembering the French Resistance in WWII -- and the bravery, resourcefulness, and skill they showed, I'd say it's a very good possibility.

A few jihadis might have caught a bullet.
You may correct me if I am wrong, I never heard of the case of citizens in US stopping or preventing a terrorist attack.
You can use Boston massacre as an example, what good did it do that you have open carry, concealed carry....
The guy standing next to the bomber could've had a gun and that wouldn't change a damn thing.

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