Gun Laws In France
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14-11-2015, 05:28 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 05:24 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 12:46 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  It was suggested on another thread that the gun laws in France failed. Terrorists seem to have no trouble whatsoever obtaining fully automatic, military grade weapons.

Someone said that "France is #11 in firearm ownership worldwide" -- implying that they have lots of guns, and these guns made no difference in the stopping of terrorism.

.....

While the numbers are true -- they are misleading. The gun laws in France are draconian - you have to go through mental testing to even own a weapon. That is - they presume guilt -- you have to prove innocence.

Then, you can't own much more than a 3 shot repeater -- and that's a major hassle.

There is no open carry. There is no concealed carry. The only way you can move a weapon is by having it disassembled and unloaded. You might as well have typewriter parts in your trunk for all the good they'll do you.

..............................

Don't pretend that they have guns for self defense - and self defense failed.

Could the French people have made a difference if they'd been carrying a gun or two? We'll never know for sure.

But, if history says anything and remembering the French Resistance in WWII -- and the bravery, resourcefulness, and skill they showed, I'd say it's a very good possibility.

A few jihadis might have caught a bullet.
You may correct me if I am wrong, I never heard of the case of citizens in US stopping or preventing a terrorist attack.
You can use Boston massacre as an example, what good did it do that you have open carry, concealed carry....
The guy standing next to the bomber could've had a gun and that wouldn't change a damn thing.

The terrorist attack in Paris was not like the Marathon bombing. The terrorists were shooting people and holding others at gun point before starting to kill them.

Had there been armed civilians it might have saved lives. It might have save a lot of lives.

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14-11-2015, 05:31 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 05:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 05:24 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  You may correct me if I am wrong, I never heard of the case of citizens in US stopping or preventing a terrorist attack.
You can use Boston massacre as an example, what good did it do that you have open carry, concealed carry....
The guy standing next to the bomber could've had a gun and that wouldn't change a damn thing.

The terrorist attack in Paris was not like the Marathon bombing. The terrorists were shooting people and holding others at gun point before starting to kill them.

Had there been armed civilians it might have saved lives. It might have save a lot of lives.

Speculation. Drinking Beverage

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14-11-2015, 05:38 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 05:31 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 05:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  The terrorist attack in Paris was not like the Marathon bombing. The terrorists were shooting people and holding others at gun point before starting to kill them.

Had there been armed civilians it might have saved lives. It might have save a lot of lives.

Speculation. Drinking Beverage

It would be just as easy to say the other side is speculating. I find it hard to believe that if a few people had a gun on them that they would have laid there and accepted death as people were shot one by one execution style. If only 1% of that crowd was carrying, we're looking at a much smaller death toll. I'm sure of it.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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14-11-2015, 05:40 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
Why do people think guns are going to help. Hell, in america guns don't help much, because shootings are normal here. Maybe france does not want to be as dangerous as america.

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14-11-2015, 05:40 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 04:48 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 04:41 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  Terrorist attacks haven't made any difference yet to gun ownership laws. Nor will this. People like living in a gun free country. What has made a difference in the past are mass shootings in schools where gun ownership was further restricted. For example Dunblane in the UK.

As I said, France is not America.

Terrorists haven't really brought the war with ground troops into western countries until recently. If this is their new tactic, rushing into a crowded area, putting people on the ground and executing them one by one as they did in the concert hall, then this changes everything. What country will sit by and allow that to continue randomly? Only a stupid populace would allow their government to keep them unarmed under such conditions.

I imagine that if this happens a few more times, France won't be among the unarmed countries.

And you would be wrong.

Most terrorists use bombs and that's what they would continue to use if guns didn't work.

Oh look, someone strapped with explosives and a dead man's switch in a crowd. Quick! Shoot him!

So yes, I repeat. France is not America. Europeans generally do not want to live in a country where gun ownership is rife. Again, this is religious thinking from the gun nuts. They can't imagine people having different values to them.
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14-11-2015, 05:41 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 05:38 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 05:31 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Speculation. Drinking Beverage

If only 1% of that crowd was carrying, we're looking at a much smaller death toll. I'm sure of it.

Certainty is the mark of a fool. Drinking Beverage

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14-11-2015, 05:42 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 05:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 05:15 PM)Stevil Wrote:  In many countries hand guns are hard to come by. The crims generally don't have them.

Your source for this is ... ?

Criminals don't seem to have any problem getting weapons.

Your source for this is ... ?
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14-11-2015, 05:46 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 05:40 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 04:48 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Terrorists haven't really brought the war with ground troops into western countries until recently. If this is their new tactic, rushing into a crowded area, putting people on the ground and executing them one by one as they did in the concert hall, then this changes everything. What country will sit by and allow that to continue randomly? Only a stupid populace would allow their government to keep them unarmed under such conditions.

I imagine that if this happens a few more times, France won't be among the unarmed countries.

And you would be wrong.

Most terrorists use bombs and that's what they would continue to use if guns didn't work.

Oh look, someone strapped with explosives and a dead man's switch in a crowd. Quick! Shoot him!

So yes, I repeat. France is not America. Europeans generally do not want to live in a country where gun ownership is rife. Again, this is religious thinking from the gun nuts. They can't imagine people having different values to them.

Well, Europeans are naturally weak. So you might be right. In America, only half of us are weak. We call them liberals.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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14-11-2015, 05:47 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 05:38 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  It would be just as easy to say the other side is speculating. I find it hard to believe that if a few people had a gun on them that they would have laid there and accepted death as people were shot one by one execution style. If only 1% of that crowd was carrying, we're looking at a much smaller death toll. I'm sure of it.

Even if that is true (which is in doubt), terrorists attacks are still extremely rare. Unlike the mass shootings, daily accidents, gun crime and suicides by gun shot that you get as a regular occurrence in America.

So at best you would save a handful of people for a very rare occurrence at the expense of many more thousands of death per year by introducing guns.
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14-11-2015, 05:48 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 05:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 05:24 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  You may correct me if I am wrong, I never heard of the case of citizens in US stopping or preventing a terrorist attack.
You can use Boston massacre as an example, what good did it do that you have open carry, concealed carry....
The guy standing next to the bomber could've had a gun and that wouldn't change a damn thing.

The terrorist attack in Paris was not like the Marathon bombing. The terrorists were shooting people and holding others at gun point before starting to kill them.

Had there been armed civilians it might have saved lives. It might have save a lot of lives.

But they are not completely retarded, they access the situation, that may be the reason they used a bomb instead of shooting it up.
If Americans have a lot of guns in citizens hands they will plant a bomb, or fly a plane into the building.
It doesn't change the outcome it just changes the method, usually for the worst.

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