Gun Laws In France
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14-11-2015, 08:22 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 07:49 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 07:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yeah, and I lived through FLQ bombings, kidnaps, and murders, followed by martial law with soldiers armed with automatic rifles, bayonets affixed, on every street corner and riding the city buses.

We got the news of the insanity in Northern Ireland here in North America, y'know. Dodgy

Those terrorist acts were outrageous to us because they were not common. They are more common and widespread now.
I was bombed by NATO and had a guy's head blown off by UCK 2 meters away from me.

Do I win?

You've made it to the semi-finals. Consider

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14-11-2015, 08:26 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 06:30 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 06:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your source for this?

Seriously try to consider how you would kill yourself without the use of a gun that is almost completely fool proof, easy and minimises the pain and suffering caused to other people. Jumping off a cliff or high place is difficult. We have a survival instinct not to do it (try it if you don't believe me). Jumping out in front of a truck or train causes great psychological distress to the driver and causes a terrible mess that needs to be cleaned up. Pills can be vomited up and can leave you alive with organ failure. Hanging is probably the most effective method but you need somewhere high enough and private enough to dangle from and isn't particularly pleasant. Drowning is also difficult. A gun is by far the easiest and most reliable method.

Mathilda I am a little surprised by your response here since you are usually one to make posts with fact and not emotion.

Asking someone to consider how they would kill themselves, if not with a gun, won't result in anything factual other than their opinion.

Do you know that all, or even most, suicidal people are concerned about the effect on others? ie...a truck driver. Or that they care about a mess. If you want to talk about mess left behind, I assure you that a self-inflicted gunshot wound will leave a mess.

When you are so despondent that you have decided on overdose as your means, are you sure the person is really thinking about the possibility/probability that the drugs/poison will be vomited up before a lethal amount hits the bloodstream? What about an injection?

What about gases? A former brother-in-law killed himself using the exhaust from his car. The car was parked in a building he knew his teenage son would probably be first to enter...not much concern for others there.

A high school classmate hung himself in the family's barn...I don't know how messy it was but you can be sure a family member found him.

A young family friend was murdered with a shotgun by her husband who then called his mother to come get their three year old who was watching TV and eating cereal in the other room. Then he turned the gun on himself. Left behind 5 kids, a devastated extended family, and a mess that I can't even fathom.

Not all suicides are planned...some are impulsive...that still doesn't mean that a gun is used.

My cousin gutshot himself about a decade ago....that was messy. He wore a colostomy bag for a while before they were able to stitch his intestines back together. His gun plan...failed.

So, twenty years ago there was a time when you may well have killed yourself if a gun had been available. That is not even part of the statistics.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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14-11-2015, 08:48 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
We should all calm down about guns and go hunting. Elk season is in full swing here. Big Grin By the way, two of my favorite gun shops are in Nice, France. One of them deals primarily in double rifles that cost close to $100K. The owner told me that all it takes to buy a long gun in France is a valid hunting license -- works for me.
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14-11-2015, 08:59 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 08:08 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 07:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  Are terrorists not criminals? Consider

Depends on at what stage you have to go to become a terrorist. Is someone a terrorist only when they act? Plan a terrorist attack? think about it to themselves? just have some desires to do so? Idk.

Technically they are terrorists when they act and committing an act of terror is a crime so if they are terrorists then they have to be criminals, same reason a murderer is always a criminal. You just can't have a non-criminal terrorist.

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14-11-2015, 09:05 PM
RE: Gun Laws In France
France doesnt need gun laws.

France needs to stuff it`s muslims into trains and send then back to whatever third world desert that trash crawled out of!

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15-11-2015, 12:13 AM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 03:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 02:29 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Notice that the during the occupation of France during WW2, the Germans had a lot more guns and were much better at using them, but still failed to stop them. The idea behind terrorism/resistance/criminal assault/ambush is to attack a person by surprise so that even if you are attacking a UFC champion, ex US Marine armed with a high performance assault rifle, your average Joe can shoot him in the back while he search for his bus ticket with no trouble at all. Guns are offensive weapons by design. They are most powerful when used to attack people. That’s the problem with them. A few more guns would hurt the French that much, neither would a more heavy security but a few more social worker, community police and frankly a fucking plan to solve their racism problem would not hurt either. Why not try a multilevel approach?

Yes, a multi-level plan is an excellent idea and no one has suggested it isn't.

The suggestion is that one of those levels be more sensible firearms laws.

Yes, Chas, it is. What do you think about that?
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15-11-2015, 03:25 AM
RE: Gun Laws In France
If governments didn't serve criminal interests and actually used some tax money to properly handle matters of arms trafficking and terrorism there would be no need for civilians to carry guns.

I too believe that if guns were more widely available in France, the terrorists would probably have chosen a different course of action and the result would have been similar.

It's funny how no one notices that Americans are usually the ones defending guns and Europeans the ones who are against them in here. It's always "if you had guns in Europe, you'd have avoided that" and "if you didn't have guns in America, you wouldn't have so many school shootings" and so on.

Maybe we should both take a step back and look at ourselves and our own countries before claiming the other side is wrong. I haven't seen anyone providing any statistics yet.

(Also totally anecdotal, but in the few places in Greece where every home has a gun, you never hear about how a gun saved a life, but only how a gun took one)

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15-11-2015, 03:41 AM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 07:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-11-2015 06:16 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  Yeah but you referred to criminals, not terrorists.

Are terrorists not criminals? Consider

Most criminals aren't terrorists.
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15-11-2015, 03:42 AM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 07:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  We got the news of the insanity in Northern Ireland here in North America, y'know. Dodgy

Those terrorist acts were outrageous to us because they were not common. They are more common and widespread now.

And yet a significant part of the IRAs funding still came from the American public at the time ...
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15-11-2015, 04:49 AM
RE: Gun Laws In France
(14-11-2015 08:48 PM)Black Eagle Wrote:  We should all calm down about guns and go hunting. Elk season is in full swing here. Big Grin By the way, two of my favorite gun shops are in Nice, France. One of them deals primarily in double rifles that cost close to $100K. The owner told me that all it takes to buy a long gun in France is a valid hunting license -- works for me.

You got that right brother....

I'm up early, getting a cuppa coffee - packing my pack up, getting dressed and heading out to the hunting blind. It's opening day of firearm deer season here in Michigan...... Gonna go out sit in the blind, eat a doughnut or two -- and maybe check out what's on TTA every so often......

That's right - I gotta tablet and internet connection in the hunting blind this year.....

Read a book, look out the window, watch a bit of TV, have some coffee, look out the window -- kill something..... Email my niece - who's also going out.

You know -- a nice relaxing morning...

Big Grin

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