Gun death becoming like diarrhea SERIOUS....
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15-07-2016, 02:35 AM
RE: Gun death becoming like diarrhea SERIOUS....
(14-07-2016 10:24 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 03:57 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Good point. We should teach our kids about guns since the first grade, if not even before .
Imagine that proud moment whit your daughter "daddy daddy look how fast I can disassemble my AR-15, promise you'll buy me that hallo kitty 30 rounds mag for my birthday"


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Well even my crazy ass would start with something more basic. I was taught gun safety on a BB gun and had to demonstrate that I was responsible enough for a real one before my stepfather got me my Winchester 94 when I was around 10. In any case, it wouldn't have been rational to wait until I was much older because there were bears and shit where we lived. Home invasion takes on a different meaning when you are returning to a cabin in the middle of nowhere, Alaska that has been unoccupied for a few months Tongue

I think I was like 12 or something like that when my father first took me shooting with .223 that he still has.

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15-07-2016, 05:05 AM
RE: Gun death becoming like diarrhea SERIOUS....
(14-07-2016 10:22 PM)Banjo Wrote:  If there was a mass stabbing, would it lead to a knife debate? Just curious.

It's happened....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

And unsurprisingly -- there's been no public outcry to ban cutlery.....

.......................................

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15-07-2016, 05:39 AM
RE: Gun death becoming like diarrhea SERIOUS....
(15-07-2016 05:05 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 10:22 PM)Banjo Wrote:  If there was a mass stabbing, would it lead to a knife debate? Just curious.

It's happened....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

And unsurprisingly -- there's been no public outcry to ban cutlery.....

Last year Uighur separatists attacked a Chinese coal mine and killed every single worker in it, approximately 50, with blades. I suppose the difference is that it was both isolated and done with a large group. China ultimately claimed it killed like 20 or 30 separatists in response whom it determined were responsible for the attack. I can't remember the exact numbers and I don't feel like hunting down the article right now. Pretty sure it was in Xinjiang of someone else feels compelled.

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15-07-2016, 07:25 AM
RE: Gun death becoming like diarrhea SERIOUS....
(14-07-2016 10:25 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 09:35 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Yes as with most studies on anything there are issues with the studies on defensive use of firearms. One of the the things that I don't like about the way the data was collected in some of the studies that resulted in high end estimates, i.e. in the millions per year, is they included responses from people that weren't legally allowed to have guns at the time. An example of that would be a convicted felon drug dealer that used a gun to defend himself during a home invasion by people there to steal his money/drugs.
Sorry I'll be honest while I tried to read the entirety of all those reports (kill me now) I'll admit to not reading every page. Can you provide me any examples listed in the report if this, or are you just assuming this happened because it was an anonymous survey?

Unfortunately not without digging back through them. That piece of data was something I picked up a few years back during a similar discussion. Probably at AF.com/org. At this point I can't remember if it is even something I picked up straight from the report itself or from reading someone's critique of one. If it was the later it wouldn't have been something someone else on the forum said, but a review/rebuttal of the report by an outside source.

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15-07-2016, 07:26 AM
RE: Gun death becoming like diarrhea SERIOUS....
(14-07-2016 07:32 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 07:16 PM)BnW Wrote:  Uhhhhh..... no they didn't. They never argued "smoker's rights"

Yes they did... http://www.no-smoke.org/getthefacts.php?id=95




Huh. Ok, they did argue that. Go figure. I was familiar with the 40 year effort to discredit the science on health issues, but had never seen this argument before.

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15-07-2016, 08:01 AM
Gun death becoming like diarrhea SERIOUS....
(14-07-2016 05:27 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  There once was a poet named Brian.
Who pissed people off without tryin'
At least once a day,
He blamed the NRA
For guns bought by people who're buyin'...


Big Grin


I'm not as good as you are at poetry but here goes.

Brian has something to say

It's always about the NRA

As a child, his dad got drunk

He popped two caps into some junk

Now Brian pees his pants everyday.
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15-07-2016, 08:26 AM
RE: Gun death becoming like diarrhea SERIOUS....
(15-07-2016 08:01 AM)KUSA Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 05:27 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  There once was a poet named Brian.
Who pissed people off without tryin'
At least once a day,
He blamed the NRA
For guns bought by people who're buyin'...


Big Grin


I'm not as good as you are at poetry but here goes.

Brian has something to say

It's always about the NRA

As a child, his dad got drunk

He popped two caps into some junk

Now Brian pees his pants everyday.
Limericks are fun. Smile



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15-07-2016, 08:55 AM
RE: Gun death becoming like diarrhea SERIOUS....
(15-07-2016 07:26 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 07:32 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Yes they did... http://www.no-smoke.org/getthefacts.php?id=95




Huh. Ok, they did argue that. Go figure. I was familiar with the 40 year effort to discredit the science on health issues, but had never seen this argument before.

[Image: Emily-Litella-Never-mind.jpg]

It was their final "Holy fuck" argument when the shit was hitting the fan in the early 90's. Internal documents about how they knew smoking causes emphysema and possibly cancer as early as the 50's had been leaked. They had no defense against anything so they hired Morton Downey Jr. who became the public face of what was supposedly a consumer's rights group but was funded by the industry itself.

The comparison between that and the NRA are mostly speculative except in court cases the NRA always sides with gun manufacturers against NRA members in legal proceedings.

I don't fault your skepticism here given the original source. Brian and his hysterical ravings make me want to rethink my position on guns, cause do I really want to be even nominally on the same side as that lunatic.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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15-07-2016, 09:19 AM
RE: Gun death becoming like diarrhea SERIOUS....
(14-07-2016 10:19 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Here is the thing with stuff like that a survey done in 1997 of 18,000 prison inmates found that about a third of those serving time for violent offenses carried a firearm while committing the crime.
Can you tell the difference instantly, cause I can't and I've been in situations where I've had to make that call. You're trying to offer binary choices to a situation that has so many variables, unexpected eventualities, and other issues.

Haha I think you can tell now why I don't like what ifs Tongue

I supose this means we will stop arguing if firearms are good tools of self defense and go back to the question of their usage. In a society with lots of guns, laws that favor the usage of guns for self defense, it's self evident that an enormous amount of cases of self defense will involve the usage of guns, that I won't dispute.

It's also self evident that in a society with easy access to guns and laws that favor the usage of guns for self defense that criminals will use guns more often than not to commit crime simply because they might fear or suspect that their victims are also armed. Its the same thing for the police who is force to approach all suspect, even in minor intervention, like if they were armed.

In Canada, 20 person were killed by police officers in 2014 (a record high) while, the same year, American police officers killed 1140. Even if you account for population and multiply Canada's number by 10, that's still five times more deaths in America. Training and weapons of police forces are pretty much identical between the two country. If you go usage of firearms by criminals, in Canada, where firearms aren't used often for self defense, only 2% of the violent crimes (robbery, assault, murders, etc.) are commited with a firearms while, according to you, that number is 30% in America.

In no way is the popularity of a method of defense is a good assessment of its quality. Considering the very small amount of evidence showing that having a gun will protect you more efficently than any other method of self defense including doing absolutly nothing, the problem caused by criminals becoming more heavily armed, police militarisation and accident caused by firearm, I found very difficult to defend a system of gun control as lax and tolerent as the one currently in effect in America.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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15-07-2016, 09:39 AM
RE: Gun death becoming like diarrhea SERIOUS....
(15-07-2016 08:01 AM)KUSA Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 05:27 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  There once was a poet named Brian.
Who pissed people off without tryin'
At least once a day,
He blamed the NRA
For guns bought by people who're buyin'...


Big Grin


I'm not as good as you are at poetry but here goes.

Brian has something to say

It's always about the NRA

As a child, his dad got drunk

He popped two caps into some junk

Now Brian pees his pants everyday.

Yep make light of a real problem, show everyone how tone def and selfish you are.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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