Guns on Campus
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14-12-2015, 06:18 AM
RE: Guns on Campus
[quote='Stevil' pid='915272' dateline='1450051014']
[quote='jabeady' pid='915257' dateline='1450049133']
A hero is a fat sandwich. What I would actually do would depend on my estimation of the total situation, including my own state of mind. What made the famous gunslingers of the Old West so deadly wasn't their speed or their accuracy, rather it was their absolute certainty before guns were drawn that their opponent was a dead man walking.
[/quote]
Ideally, rather than take your opportunity to kill someone, perhaps if the situation is going down the non lethal route then let the crim' get away with the theft rather than take your absolute certainty shot and kill him?

Does stealing $100 deserve a death sentence?

But anyway, it seems many many people may not have the patience, or nerves of steal to endure being the victim of a theft without being able to resist the temptation to draw their gun.

Perhaps you are that sensible, but do you think all gun owners are as well? I have heard of some situations (in USA) where they leave the garage open, put a purse down in full sight of the footpath and then wait patiently in the bushes with their gun, hoping someone will come to steal the purse.
[/quote]


[quote='Stevil' pid='915272' dateline='1450051014']


But anyway, it seems many many people may not have the patience, or nerves of steal to endure being the victim of a theft without being able to resist the temptation to draw their gun.
[/unquote]


That's got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Bar none.

Yeah -- just lay there and take it -- when they rape you....

Yeah --- just cower and bleed out when some punk puts a blade in your chest.


....

You're a "real" man.....You can take it.

.......
Facepalm

btw - steal and steel are not synonyms.

Learn the difference.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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14-12-2015, 06:20 AM
RE: Guns on Campus
don't ask me what just happened...

I dunno..

It wouldn't quote the first time, and did it twice the second time......

Fucking computer needs a cuppa coffee too....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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14-12-2015, 07:23 AM
RE: Guns on Campus
(06-12-2015 07:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yes, every responsible gun owner can logically argue against most of them. (my suggestions)
Nope. Not realistically anyways. Plus you're choosing to speak for the masses, and make a claim that you have no evidence in support of.

all shooters to hold verified licences
OK Which is not happening in the US as far as I can tell?

disallow concealed carry
Why? What problem are you trying to solve? In the People's Republic of Massachusetts, only concealed carry is allowed - no open carry. You don't know whether or not your mugger/rapist/home invader is armed with a deadly weapon or not, or how to respond not knowing this. And why would anybody want to hide a handgun on their person anyway—unless to commit a criminal act?

21 day moratorium on all firearm purchases
Why? What problem are you trying to solve? Spur of the moment crimes by people who're temporarily unhinged, or crimes of passion. A moratorium lets them (hopefully) cool off or reconsider their course of action.

no fully- or semi-auto guns allowed
Full automatic weapons are already hard to get, and there aren't a lot of them in civilian hands. Semi-automatic guns have great utility in self-defence, sport, and hunting. Can you please cite that fully autos are hard to get—I'm not clear on the technicalities of US gun laws. Can you also clarify what you mean by "utility" as regards self-defence? Do you mean you can shoot an assailant 20 times instead of once in order to dissuade him?

limits on purchases of ammunition
Why? What problem are you trying to solve? The building of an arms cache. Why would anybody want to hold eight hundred 7.62mm rounds in their home as one recent US shooter was reported as doing? No legitimate target/sports shooter would need to do this.

ammunition purchases registered against firearms license number
Pretty much pointless. What problem are you trying to solve? Ensuring the limits on ammunition purchases are maintained (as above) by preventing purchasing from multiple gun shops. It also identifies ammunition bought to a genuine name and address.

no license shown—no purchase of guns and/or ammunition
OK Is this currently the case in the US? I'm not sure due to different legislation in each of your individual states.

—I'm getting the distinct impression you're part of the putative US pro-gun lobby. can you confirm that please? And for the record, I'm not anti-gun at all. I'm ex-military, and qualified as a sharp-shooter, plus I'm a licensed sports shooter and owner of three target rifles.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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14-12-2015, 07:37 AM
RE: Guns on Campus
800 rounds??? Big deal....

When 7.62 x 39 (the round used by the AK and SKS) first became easily available the ONLY way you could buy surplus was in 1440 round cases (2 tins of 720) Russian ammo, on stripper clips. (at least around here)

...

At the time it was the cheapest shooting (centerfire cartridge) available -- about 5 cents a round.. THe only thing cheaper was 22 rimfire......

It was steel case, berdain prime -- which meant that you couldn't reload it -- so the "brass" wasn't even worth picking up....

THAT'S WHY we bought it -- IT WAS CHEAP!!!!!!!!

At one time a friend of mine and I bought a pallet load of the stuff. We sold some to friends -- and shot up the rest...... I must have put between 20 and 30,000 rounds through my first SKS in the first couple years......

When somebody gets excited about someone having 800 piddly rounds, it makes me laugh...

You people have NO idea how much ammo some people have........


Smile

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The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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14-12-2015, 07:41 AM
RE: Guns on Campus
AND ---

Registering ammo sales?????

A little late to the game there, sonny.....

They HAD that requirement for YEARS -- following the 1968 gun law...... We had to sign for all handgun ammo.

The law was repealed -a few years back- at the recommendation of the FBI --- because according to the FBI -- it never solved a single crime. Not one..

.......................................

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14-12-2015, 07:41 AM
RE: Guns on Campus
(06-12-2015 07:58 PM)Black Eagle Wrote:  Your ban on semi-auto guns would outlaw the finest and one of the most popular sporting/hunting guns in America, the Browning A-5 shotgun. My A-5 has put a lot of meat -- pheasants, quail, ducks, etc. -- in my freezer
Straw man.

(06-12-2015 07:58 PM)Black Eagle Wrote:  Trust me on this, SYZ, any responsible shooter can argue logically against all of your recommendations.
My suggestions are aimed [sic] primarily at the irresponsible and/or criminal shooters.

(06-12-2015 07:58 PM)Black Eagle Wrote:  The only person who would consider them reasonable is a non-shooter. When you make a list like that, it shows that you have little to no experience shooting and/or hunting and I would even question whether you know anyone who does shoot/hunt. I don't mean that as an insult. However, it seems that the people with the worst ideas about guns are the people who know the least about them.

Oh dear... LOL. I'm ex-miltary (L/Cpl, ADF, RAE), a qualified sharp-shooter (600 metre body mass shot), have fired and broken down a dozen military weapons, am a registered gun club member of 30 years, and own three 'scoped target rifles—a Ruger and two heavy-barreled Anschütz.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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14-12-2015, 07:43 AM
RE: Guns on Campus
(14-12-2015 07:41 AM)SYZ Wrote:  My suggestions are aimed [sic] primarily at the irresponsible and/or criminal shooters.

When you figure out a way to get stupid and criminal people to obey the laws - let us know.......

We'll be right behind you.....

.......................................

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14-12-2015, 07:52 AM
RE: Guns on Campus
(14-12-2015 07:23 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 07:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yes, every responsible gun owner can logically argue against most of them. (my suggestions)
Nope. Not realistically anyways. Plus you're choosing to speak for the masses, and make a claim that you have no evidence in support of.

I am not speaking for them, I was stating the logical possibility that a responsible gun owner would be able to argue those points.

Quote:all shooters to hold verified licences
OK Which is not happening in the US as far as I can tell?

Some states require a license, some don't. It is, however, a little more complicated than that. In states that don't have firearms licensing, you still have to provide a valid ID.

Quote:disallow concealed carry
Why? What problem are you trying to solve? In the People's Republic of Massachusetts, only concealed carry is allowed - no open carry. You don't know whether or not your mugger

If the mugger is not showing a weapon, I can walk away unmugged.

Quote:/rapist/home invader

Those should be met with deadly force.

Quote:is armed with a deadly weapon or not, or how to respond not knowing this.

If there are multiple assailants or the assailant is physically dangerous, then deadly force is an appropriate response.

Quote: And why would anybody want to hide a handgun on their person anyway—unless to commit a criminal act?

For self-defense. Sorry, but that is really a dumb question.

Quote:21 day moratorium on all firearm purchases
Why? What problem are you trying to solve? Spur of the moment crimes by people who're temporarily unhinged, or crimes of passion. A moratorium lets them (hopefully) cool off or reconsider their course of action.

One does not go in to a gun store, toss money on the counter, and walk out with a gain. They aren't sold in vending machines.
There is paperwork to fill out and a background check to wait for. Someone in a homicidal rage is not going to manage that.

Quote:no fully- or semi-auto guns allowed
Full automatic weapons are already hard to get, and there aren't a lot of them in civilian hands. Semi-automatic guns have great utility in self-defence, sport, and hunting. Can you please cite that fully autos are hard to get—I'm not clear on the technicalities of US gun laws.

National Firearms Act of 1934
Gun Control Act of 1968
Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986

Quote:Can you also clarify what you mean by "utility" as regards self-defence? Do you mean you can shoot an assailant 20 times instead of once in order to dissuade him?

One bullet will not necessarily stop an assailant.

Quote:limits on purchases of ammunition
Why? What problem are you trying to solve? The building of an arms cache. Why would anybody want to hold eight hundred 7.62mm rounds in their home as one recent US shooter was reported as doing?

People make ammunition themselves (reloading). How do you propose to regulate that?


Quote:No legitimate target/sports shooter would need to do this.

Oh, really? I have gone through 100 or more rounds of rifle ammunition at one session at the range many times. Eight hundred rounds on hand is not unusual for legitimate target/sports shooters.

And shotgun shells? A typical competition has a shooter fire between 50 and 500 rounds in a day.

Quote:ammunition purchases registered against firearms license number
Pretty much pointless. What problem are you trying to solve? Ensuring the limits on ammunition purchases are maintained (as above) by preventing purchasing from multiple gun shops. It also identifies ammunition bought to a genuine name and address.

One already has to show license or ID to purchase ammunition.
You have made no compelling argument for limitations.

Quote: no license shown—no purchase of guns and/or ammunition
OK Is this currently the case in the US? I'm not sure due to different legislation in each of your individual states.

—I'm getting the distinct impression you're part of the putative US pro-gun lobby. can you confirm that please?

I'm a gun owner, sport shooter, and hunter.

I'm getting the distinct impression that your opinions aren't based on facts or critical thinking.

Quote:And for the record, I'm not anti-gun at all. I'm ex-military, and qualified as a sharp-shooter, plus I'm a licensed sports shooter and owner of three target rifles.

How many rounds of ammunition do you have at home?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-12-2015, 12:54 PM
RE: Guns on Campus
(14-12-2015 06:18 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(13-12-2015 05:56 PM)Stevil Wrote:  But anyway, it seems many many people may not have the patience, or nerves of steal to endure being the victim of a theft without being able to resist the temptation to draw their gun.
Yeah -- just lay there and take it -- when they rape you....
Who was talking about rape?

(14-12-2015 06:18 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Yeah --- just cower and bleed out when some punk puts a blade in your chest.
??? Who was talking about a blade in your chest?
I said, if the crime was taking the non violent route.


(14-12-2015 06:18 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  btw - steal and steel are not synonyms.

Learn the difference.
Oh, awesome, your my spelling and grammar checker. Fantastic!
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14-12-2015, 02:08 PM (This post was last modified: 14-12-2015 02:14 PM by jabeady.)
RE: Guns on Campus
(14-12-2015 07:23 AM)SYZ Wrote:  [L limits on purchases of ammunition
Why? What problem are you trying to solve? The building of an arms cache. Why would anybody want to hold eight hundred 7.62mm rounds in their home as one recent US shooter was reported as doing? No legitimate target/sports shooter would need to do this.

ammunition purchases registered against firearms license number
Pretty much pointless. What problem are you trying to solve? Ensuring the limits on ammunition purchases are maintained (as above) by preventing purchasing from multiple gun shops. It also identifies ammunition bought to a genuine name and address.

I'm a sport shooter and small-time collector. I own nine long guns and 10 revolvers, all single-action (you have to manually cock the hammer before you can pull the trigger - one of the rifles, you also have to manually chamber a round but it's still considered a "repeater"). None of these can be considered high-capacity, rapid-fire by today's standards. Even so, I routinely stock 1,500 pistol rounds. That doesn't include my 1911 .45 ACP (my home - defense gun), for which I have 10 7-round clips, or my 9mm double-action concealed - carry gun (two 6-round clips). This doesn't count long-range rifle rounds.

At a target match I can run through anywhere from 120 to 600 rounds per day, depending on the match. At the range, 100 to 200 rounds.

I reload all of my pistol ammo except the 9mm, and all of the rifle. I also have a concealed pistol license, which I got primarily to avoid any inadvertent problems with handling or transporting. The CPL also substitutes for a background check. As mentioned in another series of posts, I do occasionally concealed-carry the 9mm in daily activities.

The only abnormality of my situation is that I probably have far less ammo on hand than most. On the other hand, as a reloader, I also keep about 10 lbs of bulk gunpowder and 5,000 primers. Again, this is not terribly atypical.

That is a look at the "arsenal" of a fairly typical sport shooter.
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