Guns on Campus
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14-12-2015, 09:01 PM
RE: Guns on Campus
(14-12-2015 07:33 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(14-12-2015 07:24 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  And, too cowardly to stand up for yourself -- and think everyone else should be a pussy too......
It's interesting, I was reading a book last year that in one part talked about a common South USA culture, where it is seen poorly to step down. To walk away.

It's also portayed in Back to the future where Marty's weakness is that he can't walk away if someone calls him chicken. Now I have no idea if the character "Marty" is from a southern USA state and I have no idea of whether you are. But if I were to profile you against a common caricature I'd say "Southern USA - probably Texas"

And I do know that there are probably many, many Texans that aren't like that at all. But you are not one of them.

BTW - no I haven't read your profile. I'm not interested enough to look into your background.

Just interested enough to make assumptions without fact-checking, hmmm? Consider

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-12-2015, 09:15 PM (This post was last modified: 14-12-2015 09:31 PM by Stevil.)
RE: Guns on Campus
(14-12-2015 09:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  Just interested enough to make assumptions without fact-checking, hmmm? Consider
Well, no.

My point was that he presents himself as a stereo-type of a Texan, Gun wielding, gung ho, shoot first ask questions later type. You know, the type of person you would least want to have a gun or be a president of a nuclear armed country.

I don't actually care whether he is from Texas or not. It's the stereo type that fits him snuggly, that's what my point was.

I wasn't actually literally telling him that he resides in Texas LOL.

His previous comment about the thief having no "rights" paints a picture in my head of onlinebiker being some kind of Judge Dredd wanna be. Judge, Jury and executioner.

It seems funny that people criticise the USA police for shooting (almost execution style) criminals, and right here on TTA we have some gun "enthusiasts" who suggest that the crims have no rights.
Almost like, if you catch someone in the act of snatching a purse or pinching a car that perhaps you ought to "draw yer gone and shoot 'em" - Yeee Hawwwww
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14-12-2015, 09:33 PM
RE: Guns on Campus
(14-12-2015 09:15 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(14-12-2015 09:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  Just interested enough to make assumptions without fact-checking, hmmm? Consider
Well, no.

My point was that he presents himself as a stereo-type of a Texan, Gun wielding, gung ho, shoot first ask questions later type. You know, the type of person you would least want to have a gun or be a president of a nuclear armed country.

I don't actually care whether he is from Texas or not. It's the stereo type that fits him snuggly, that's what my point was.

I wasn't actually literally telling him that he resides in Texas LOL.

His previous comment about the thief having no "rights" paints a picture in my head of onlinebiker being some kind of Judge Dredd wanna be. Judge, Jury and executioner.

It seems funny that people criticise the USA police for shooting (almost execution style) criminals, and right here on TTA we have some gun "enthusiasts" who suggest that the crims have no rights.
Almost like, if you catch someone in the act of snatching a purse or pinching a car that perhaps you ought to "draw yer gone and shoot 'em"

That is not what he said. He was addressing a violent confrontation.

And if someone threatens my life, he will be met with deadly force. His right to life is forfeit.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-12-2015, 10:17 PM
RE: Guns on Campus
(14-12-2015 09:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  That is not what he said. He was addressing a violent confrontation.
Well, actually, what he said was
Quote:Actually, I'm more concerned with your stupid idea of yielding to a criminal -- and assuming that they're JUST going to rob you..............

If you want to place your life in the hands of a mugger, thief (whatever you care to call them) and NOT defend yourself -- that's your outlook.......

I'm going to draw down on the prick if at all possible -- and if he gives me reason - I will make him cease his bad behavior..........................


I won't trust that he's a "good" criminal, who is "only" going to rob me -- but I'll assume the worst --- that he's a piece of shit - and he's given up his rights as a human being....... Fuck him.... His "rights" just ended....

There was no reference to an immediate life threatening situation. He is just going to assume the worst.
It's like in those states with the "Make my day" policy. Some unarmed drunken girl stumbles into the wrong house and gets shot by a terrified trigger happy person whom feels they have the "right" to shoot whatever moves.



(14-12-2015 09:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  And if someone threatens my life, he will be met with deadly force. His right to life is forfeit.
I really don't understand this idea of "rights". And especially you thinking that you have the ability to determine what the other person's "rights" are.

If your life is in imminent danger then sure, you need to protect yourself. If you need to take them out to protect yourself then sure that's what you need to do. It has nothing to do with "rights", yours or theirs.

Of course the law will come in later to sort out the "legal rights" of it. Perhaps if the law says you can shoot an unarmed intruder on your property then you can take this seemingly once in a lifetime opportunity to do just that and the law will support you (in those particular states) unfortunately, of course, you won't be able to hang them on your trophy wall.

I've had intruders on my property before. I've talked to them and escorted them off my property. Were they really drunk or were they there to steal my stuff? Probably there to steal my stuff. Did I need a gun? No. Did I need to shoot anyone dead? No. Will they probably steal from someone else? Probably.

I certainly see that USA is different, "everyone" has guns, many of you are walking around terrified for your lives, scared to walk out beyond the front door without your loaded gun on you. It leads to some very trigger happy situations. At your gun shows peeps get together and convince each other it's better to shoot first rather than to "risk" your own life. Onlinebiker is a product of this culture, I understand that many people over there are just like him. It's no wonder your police shoot so many people.

From an outsider's (non USA) perspective it's just nuts. USA isn't a war zone, you aren't in the danger that you think you are. You really don't need an AR-15 at home for protection, you don't need to lug around handguns where-ever you go. You don't need to shoot car thieves, you don't need to shoot petty criminals. If you see a person with a knife you don't need to shoot them. The likelihood of you being caught up in a mass shooting is so terribly small. You don't go around with a helmet on or a lightening rod on or a life jacket on, do you really need to carry a gun in town, to school, to the movies, ...

I often hear stories of people online who say they got into a situation, flashed their gun and then were able to walk away. Well in other countries many people get into situations, don't flash guns and are still able to walk away. Perhaps you'd be surprised at how little of these situations escalate into actual physical confrontations.

Really, what I'd like to hear from gun enthusiasts is not this gung ho shit, but instead them saying that they hope never to use their guns, perhaps that they avoid carrying their guns if they are going near schools, perhaps that they would only look to use their gun if they feel their life in is immediate danger where they could instead just give up some money or run away or something, or perhaps just let a car thief drive away.

But that's not what we get. You guys promote carry at all times, promote shoot first, promote giving guns to teachers etc. Gung ho nuttiness. Are you really that scared?

How on earth do you think NZer's, UKers, Australians, Canadians, etc get by without packing a gun on themselves.

Ooooh, bit scary, think I'll bring my gun along, just in case.
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14-12-2015, 11:12 PM
RE: Guns on Campus
(14-12-2015 09:15 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Almost like, if you catch someone in the act of snatching a purse or pinching a car that perhaps you ought to "draw yer gone and shoot 'em" - Yeee Hawwwww

That's crazy talk. You might damage the car.

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15-12-2015, 02:47 AM
RE: Guns on Campus
(14-12-2015 10:17 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(14-12-2015 09:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  That is not what he said. He was addressing a violent confrontation.
Well, actually, what he said was
Quote:Actually, I'm more concerned with your stupid idea of yielding to a criminal -- and assuming that they're JUST going to rob you..............

If you want to place your life in the hands of a mugger, thief (whatever you care to call them) and NOT defend yourself -- that's your outlook.......

I'm going to draw down on the prick if at all possible -- and if he gives me reason - I will make him cease his bad behavior..........................


I won't trust that he's a "good" criminal, who is "only" going to rob me -- but I'll assume the worst --- that he's a piece of shit - and he's given up his rights as a human being....... Fuck him.... His "rights" just ended....

There was no reference to an immediate life threatening situation. He is just going to assume the worst.
It's like in those states with the "Make my day" policy. Some unarmed drunken girl stumbles into the wrong house and gets shot by a terrified trigger happy person whom feels they have the "right" to shoot whatever moves.



(14-12-2015 09:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  And if someone threatens my life, he will be met with deadly force. His right to life is forfeit.
I really don't understand this idea of "rights". And especially you thinking that you have the ability to determine what the other person's "rights" are.

If your life is in imminent danger then sure, you need to protect yourself. If you need to take them out to protect yourself then sure that's what you need to do. It has nothing to do with "rights", yours or theirs.

Of course the law will come in later to sort out the "legal rights" of it. Perhaps if the law says you can shoot an unarmed intruder on your property then you can take this seemingly once in a lifetime opportunity to do just that and the law will support you (in those particular states) unfortunately, of course, you won't be able to hang them on your trophy wall.

I've had intruders on my property before. I've talked to them and escorted them off my property. Were they really drunk or were they there to steal my stuff? Probably there to steal my stuff. Did I need a gun? No. Did I need to shoot anyone dead? No. Will they probably steal from someone else? Probably.

I certainly see that USA is different, "everyone" has guns, many of you are walking around terrified for your lives, scared to walk out beyond the front door without your loaded gun on you. It leads to some very trigger happy situations. At your gun shows peeps get together and convince each other it's better to shoot first rather than to "risk" your own life. Onlinebiker is a product of this culture, I understand that many people over there are just like him. It's no wonder your police shoot so many people.

From an outsider's (non USA) perspective it's just nuts. USA isn't a war zone, you aren't in the danger that you think you are. You really don't need an AR-15 at home for protection, you don't need to lug around handguns where-ever you go. You don't need to shoot car thieves, you don't need to shoot petty criminals. If you see a person with a knife you don't need to shoot them. The likelihood of you being caught up in a mass shooting is so terribly small. You don't go around with a helmet on or a lightening rod on or a life jacket on, do you really need to carry a gun in town, to school, to the movies, ...

I often hear stories of people online who say they got into a situation, flashed their gun and then were able to walk away. Well in other countries many people get into situations, don't flash guns and are still able to walk away. Perhaps you'd be surprised at how little of these situations escalate into actual physical confrontations.

Really, what I'd like to hear from gun enthusiasts is not this gung ho shit, but instead them saying that they hope never to use their guns, perhaps that they avoid carrying their guns if they are going near schools, perhaps that they would only look to use their gun if they feel their life in is immediate danger where they could instead just give up some money or run away or something, or perhaps just let a car thief drive away.

But that's not what we get. You guys promote carry at all times, promote shoot first, promote giving guns to teachers etc. Gung ho nuttiness. Are you really that scared?

How on earth do you think NZer's, UKers, Australians, Canadians, etc get by without packing a gun on themselves.

Ooooh, bit scary, think I'll bring my gun along, just in case.

Simple solution

Stay the hell out....

You're not my legislator, you don't get to make the laws.

You're not my mother - you don't get to decide what's good for me.

Apparently, you don't even live here -- so your "points" mean squat.


End of story.

.......................................

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15-12-2015, 03:43 AM
RE: Guns on Campus
(15-12-2015 02:47 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Apparently, you don't even live here -- so your "points" mean squat.


End of story.


Geography doesn't invalidate logic, nor is it the basis for good reason or argumentation.

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15-12-2015, 06:26 AM
RE: Guns on Campus
(15-12-2015 03:43 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(15-12-2015 02:47 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Apparently, you don't even live here -- so your "points" mean squat.


End of story.


Geography doesn't invalidate logic, nor is it the basis for good reason or argumentation.

This is true -- but telling the neighbors how to live is just plain rude.....

Your house, your rules..

My house, my rules....

.......................................

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15-12-2015, 06:38 AM
RE: Guns on Campus
(14-12-2015 07:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  How many rounds of ammunition do you have at home?

Usually only a couple of boxes of 100 rounds each. Just enough for a Saturday afternoon at the range.

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15-12-2015, 06:52 AM
RE: Guns on Campus
(15-12-2015 06:26 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(15-12-2015 03:43 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Geography doesn't invalidate logic, nor is it the basis for good reason or argumentation.

This is true -- but telling the neighbors how to live is just plain rude.....

Your house, your rules..

My house, my rules....


And if your front yard is on fire, and you're throwing kerosene on it in an attempt to douse the flames; you're neighbor isn't out of line in questioning your choice of fire fighting technique. Especially considering that fire has a nasty habit of spreading.


I mean, you don't have to stop throwing kerosene on it, be he's entitled to be of the opinion that it's a really stupid idea.

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