Had I'd known...
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17-05-2017, 10:47 AM
RE: Had I'd known...
(17-05-2017 10:24 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(17-05-2017 08:39 AM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  While the usual suspects were, by and large, the anti-theistic attack dogs I expected them to be, you brought this on yourself man. You've been continually condescending in your short time here, posted nonstop strawmen, made claims of ignorance only to show you weren't ignorant and thus lying, and so much more. If at any time you'd just said of something, "I can't answer that", people would have respected it (at least more than what you did do). Edit: Also just want to add, you earned my own personal ire when you began to accuse people of cherry picking by their quoting the Christ. By that point, Bucky and Inquisition in particular had my respect that they were holding back as much as they did.

Woof woof, am I going to catholic hell now ? Consider

Depends on which Catholic you're asking. I struggle with the idea of Hell for good people (something the current Pope seems to as well). If you ask CC, I'm guessing the answer would be a resounding yes. Then again, first as a Baptist and now as a Catholic, I don't understand why people can be so happy to condemn others to Hell and seem so damn cheery about it (not saying CC is, just that it's sadly common). Why would anyone lack basic empathy and rejoice in the eternal torment of another?

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17-05-2017, 10:53 AM
RE: Had I'd known...
I'm somewhat anti being characterised as an "attack dog". Sure, I get annoyed sometimes, and CC found the right way to do it - be a supercilious twit - but I gave him plenty of space to actually answer questions if he was sincere. I didn't force my dogma on him, although he might have felt differently. I made it clear when I was speaking of my personal opinion, not generally recognised facts. I asked him for his own definitions and logic regarding claims he made, I didn't assume them. I think it's not rude to include the occasional swearword. I have scant patience for these word-salad merchants, especially when they're playing games and not genuinely here for discussion.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-05-2017, 10:54 AM
RE: Had I'd known...
Easy, it gives some of the religious a sense of superiority and justification for their judgemental attitudes, it makes them feel superior, they need this because the arguments for a supernatural deity are soo weak and they can't cope with the truth and reality.
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17-05-2017, 10:58 AM
RE: Had I'd known...
(17-05-2017 08:39 AM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  While the usual suspects were, by and large, the anti-theistic attack dogs I expected them to be, you brought this on yourself man. You've been continually condescending in your short time here, posted nonstop strawmen, made claims of ignorance only to show you weren't ignorant and thus lying, and so much more. If at any time you'd just said of something, "I can't answer that", people would have respected it (at least more than what you did do). Edit: Also just want to add, you earned my own personal ire when you began to accuse people of cherry picking by their quoting the Christ. By that point, Bucky and Inquisition in particular had my respect that they were holding back as much as they did.

I am reliably informed that the correct Yiddish term for this guy is shmegegge.





I knew that Yiddish would have it covered. They have the perfect word for everything that takes a strong, emotive description.

(Edit: Skip to 1:12 in the video to get the correct definition, after all the guesses.)

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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17-05-2017, 10:58 AM
RE: Had I'd known...
It feels kinda good to be known as an atheist attack dog, I'm happy with that. Big Grin
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17-05-2017, 11:16 AM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2017 11:21 AM by Shai Hulud.)
RE: Had I'd known...
What I find interesting is that I specifically did not name any names and people are assuming it was about them. Edit: Except to point out at the end of CC's time here, Inquisition and Bucky were being nicer than I'd be, given how he kept ignoring everything they tried to say. Edit 2: Also I'm sorry, that first sentence comes off far more vitriolic sounding than there is intent for it to do, it's supposed to be more observational than it comes across. It comes off as me being an asshole.

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17-05-2017, 11:19 AM
RE: Had I'd known...
(17-05-2017 04:03 AM)ColdComfort Wrote:  ---
Bye.

Ok, bye. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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17-05-2017, 11:21 AM
RE: Had I'd known...
(17-05-2017 10:47 AM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(17-05-2017 10:24 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Woof woof, am I going to catholic hell now ? Consider

Depends on which Catholic you're asking. I struggle with the idea of Hell for good people (something the current Pope seems to as well). If you ask CC, I'm guessing the answer would be a resounding yes. Then again, first as a Baptist and now as a Catholic, I don't understand why people can be so happy to condemn others to Hell and seem so damn cheery about it (not saying CC is, just that it's sadly common). Why would anyone lack basic empathy and rejoice in the eternal torment of another?

The particular Aquinas quote on it just horrifies me:

Aquinas - "In order that nothing may be wanting to the felicity of the blessed spirits in heaven, a perfect view is granted to them of the tortures of the damned."

I suppose I'm a masochist, I went to a Catholic forum to see how the rank and file would deal with this:

Watching People tortured in Hell?

So the general consensus was that it would increase their enjoyment of heaven.

Another one tried to redefine what the word happy means.

Just one on that page admitted that it troubles them.

They're about as empathetic as a spider is to a fly, as long as you get yours- fuck'em! FacepalmGaspGasp

This is what I call "Cold Christian Compassion".

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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17-05-2017, 11:31 AM
RE: Had I'd known...
(17-05-2017 11:21 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(17-05-2017 10:47 AM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Depends on which Catholic you're asking. I struggle with the idea of Hell for good people (something the current Pope seems to as well). If you ask CC, I'm guessing the answer would be a resounding yes. Then again, first as a Baptist and now as a Catholic, I don't understand why people can be so happy to condemn others to Hell and seem so damn cheery about it (not saying CC is, just that it's sadly common). Why would anyone lack basic empathy and rejoice in the eternal torment of another?

The particular Aquinas quote on it just horrifies me:

Aquinas - "In order that nothing may be wanting to the felicity of the blessed spirits in heaven, a perfect view is granted to them of the tortures of the damned."

I suppose I'm a masochist, I went to a Catholic forum to see how the rank and file would deal with this:

Watching People tortured in Hell?

So the general consensus was that it would increase their enjoyment of heaven.

Another one tried to redefine what the word happy means.

Just one on that page admitted that it troubles them.

They're about as empathetic as a spider is to a fly, as long as you get yours- fuck'em! FacepalmGaspGasp

This is what I call "Cold Christian Compassion".

For goodness sake man, the Catholic Answers Forum? It burns us! It burns! (Sorry for the light snark, it's just that CAF is populated by, as this thread shows, so many nutters. Including as a mod, one of my exes' dad.)

I do love how PinkLady tried to point out how fucked up everyone was being and people are like "oh we're joking". No, trust me. As someone who has been reassured numerous times that I'm going to Hell for voting in favor of pro-choice politicians and for having a little D on my voter registration, a lot of those people are not joking in the slightest.

FWIW, I'm horrified by that Aquinas quote as well. It's actually rather reminiscent of a Muslim apologist I once watched a debate of, who grinned and laughed at how fun it would be to watch the flesh repeatedly burn from people's skeletons in the afterlife while they were in Hell and good Muslims were watching in Heaven. Also with you on the person who tried to redefine (or I assume this is how you feel as well) that it's bullshit someone tried to say "happy isn't an emotion to Aquinas".

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17-05-2017, 11:36 AM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2017 12:23 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Had I'd known...
(17-05-2017 11:16 AM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  What I find interesting is that I specifically did not name any names and people are assuming it was about them. Edit: Except to point out at the end of CC's time here, Inquisition and Bucky were being nicer than I'd be, given how he kept ignoring everything they tried to say. Edit 2: Also I'm sorry, that first sentence comes off far more vitriolic sounding than there is intent for it to do, it's supposed to be more observational than it comes across. It comes off as me being an asshole.

I didn't read it that way. We do have our "attack dogs", guys who simply have a "we take zero bullshit, despite the treatment to which you've become accustomed due to society's baby-gloves handling of religious opinions" [edit: approach/attitude], and it's fair to say that they give anyone who comes here with religious statements a hard time. Some handle it better than others... the ones who handle it badly are the ones who are so convinced not only that they are right, but that they have a right to have their (stupid/unsupported/etc) ideas coddled and never challenged, or only challenged oh-so-politely, by people who don't already share their ideas.

That's one of the big faults with religion-- you get groups of people, even ones who hold extreme minority positions, and they all agree with one another until the whole group is convinced that their position MUST be right, since they know no one who calls them on any of their bullshit. It's not a big step from there to deciding that anyone not in your little thought-circle cannot possibly be entitled to call bullshit on these ideas.

They come here, spout that "unquestionable" bullshit, and act surprised when we do challenge it immediately and vehemently... but that's when the 2nd part kicks in and they say we "just don't understand" (even when we're quoting from religious websites that 100% agree with our reading of the material) or are just saying what we're saying because we "hate God" or "that's just what atheists would say", and so on. Then they act shocked when we get belligerent, because after all they were entitled to speak to others in that way with no repercussion, or they get to feel martyred when we do speak to them as they spoke to us.

It's kind of amazing to watch.

It's also nice to have a person (on either side) who is intellectually honest enough to be able to call out someone from either side of the debate who has crossed a line, or been less-than-honest, or whose facts are not in order, regardless of which "team" the person plays for. That's one of the biggest differences, I think, between an atheist forum and a theist forum. We are just as likely to call one another out for dishonesty or mistakes as we are anyone who comes here-- intellectual integrity is a paramount virtue, among freethinkers, for the most part-- but have a few who will try to tear down the "other team" out of simple emotional reasons, such as bigotry. However, in Christian groups, I'd say that the vast majority I encounter are in the latter category, at least when speaking to an Outsider (non-believer), while a very few are like Shai Hulud, and share our values of intellectual integrity and of taking a close look at one's own motivations/statements critically. Indeed, I'd say the percentages of both are almost exactly reversed.

And frankly, that's a crying shame. Not only because those dishonest people come here and expect the deference they're granted everywhere else, but because it makes great guys like Shai Hulud forget that we won't get mad even in the slightest because you call things like you see them, and can support your statement. That's something worthy of respect, even praise, here.

So kudos, mon ami.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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