Had I'd known...
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18-05-2017, 12:50 AM
RE: Had I'd known...
I just found a video that explains Christianity really well. I've always found it kind of confusing and stupid, but now I get it.




I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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18-05-2017, 03:09 AM
RE: Had I'd known...
(17-05-2017 08:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It's an example of the Reification Fallacy.

Perhaps the belief in any spiritual concept (the human soul, perfect morality, God, the afterlife) is caused by confusing symbolic concepts with realities. Just because you see something a certain way doesn't mean it is that way. That's a common human perceptual problem.
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18-05-2017, 05:10 AM
RE: Had I'd known...
(17-05-2017 08:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So I pulled my copy of Feser's book off my shelf.
I had forgotten how many "no", and "nopes" I had scrawled in it.

One of the things that he's famous for, is his "triangle" argument, (for realism), and claims no one has been able to refute it. On page 42, he is giving his version of arguments for realism, and gives his "one over many" argument :

"Triangularity", "redness", "humanness" etc. are not reducible to any particular triangle, red thing, human being, nor to any collection of triangles, red things, or human beings. For any particular triangle, red thing, or human being, or even the whole collection of these things, could go out of existence, and yet triangularity, redness, and humanness could come to be exemplified once again. They also could be, and often are, exemplified, even when no human mind is aware of this fact. Hence triangularity, redness, humanness, and other universals are neither material things nor collections of material things, nor dependent on human minds for their existence."

Facepalm

So what's wrong here ? Among them, are :

1. Of course they are not material things. But the perceptions of them, are the product of (physical) brain processes. Redness (if he knew any physics) is obvious, and "humanness" is too undefined to even attempt to deal with. His conclusion that they are "immaterial and not dependent on human minds for their existence" is demonstrably false, and he has not one example where they exist in the absence of human minds. It's also a fact, that damaged human brains, (by injury or disease) are unable to correctly name what they perceive. If all humans were color-blind, there would be no "redness". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_spectrum
Light in that spectrum would still exist, but humans would not have learned to name it "red". Redness, as an idea, exists nowhere except in human brains that have learned to name it that.

2. All human (usually infant-toddler) brains learn, by trial and error, and ultimately by positive reinforcement, what to name a form that it sees, that resembles a "triangle". If humans had chosen to name three-sided forms "dim-wits", then the toddler would LEARN to call three sided forms a "dim-wit". If there were no three sided forms in the environment of the toddlers in question, (and there were not for hundreds of thousands of years in human evolution), then not only would there be no "dim-wits", but they would have no clue what someone was talking about, when that term was used. If a human brain has no learned experience with the concept, it is oblivious of a dim-wit. The "idea" of a dim-wit exists nowhere, except in the brains of those who have learned to correctly name the object. There is no "triangularity" apart from human brain processing. There are 3 sided objects, but apart from those who have learned and agreed to call them by a certain name, "triangularity" does not exist. It's a LEARNED (sometimes correctly, sometimes not), human naming convention.

2. No matter what example a toddler, who has learned what to call a three sided form, happens upon, it is never a "perfect dim-wit". They are all objects which can be named a dim-wit, to follow a convention, that is somewhat variable, but with increasingly complex technical tools, no 'perfect' dim-wit would EVER be found. There is no perfect dim-wit. If there were no people on Earth who called a dim-wit a dim-wit, "dim-wits" would NOT exist. There would be many three-sided, (all DIFFERENT) objects, but "dim-wits" are not a "thing" *in themselves* UNTIL a brain who has learned what to call them, ... names one of the objects that resembles a dim-wit, a "dim-wit".

His argument FAILS.
It's an example of the Reification Fallacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification_(fallacy)

There is no such *thing* as triangularity that exists apart from human brains who have learned how to use a word. It's a LEARNED naming -convention concept, (as well as a concept in math, that can be defined in many ways, and *could* have been defined in other ways).

Anyway, L'll Eddy's triangle BS is easily refuted.

The concept of "perfect" is a red flag for someone engaged in reification. As soon as I hear someone use perfect and god in a sentence, I'm like:

[Image: picard-oh-ffs-sake-not-this-shit-again.jpg]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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18-05-2017, 06:05 AM
RE: Had I'd known...
(18-05-2017 12:50 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I just found a video that explains Christianity really well. I've always found it kind of confusing and stupid, but now I get it.




It must have taken hours to get through that




Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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