Hanging on to "christian" morality
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07-10-2013, 12:45 PM
RE: Hanging on to "christian" morality
(07-10-2013 12:25 PM)als77 Wrote:  I will have big problems accepting my spouse to not have the same views/background regarding waiting with sex til marriage.
This is an important point worth focusing on.

There are a couple of viewpoints here:
1. The purpose of a life companion
2. The importance of virginity

Item 1:
Maybe do this in the privacy of your own home, or online if you really want to share with us.
Write down what you would feel would be the perfect woman companion for you.
e.g.
Smart, funny, aligned values, common interests, someone that makes you feel happy, someone that makes you forget your personal issues and instead someone that make you feel good about yourself, someone that brings the best out in you. Someone that you think about alot, that you look forward to seeing, that you want to experience things with, someone that is a virgin.
Once you have everything listed out, then put it all down in a priority order. Notice where virginity ranks on the priority list.

Item 2:
You do realise that once you have had sex with a woman that she will no longer be a virgin. So for the rest of your lives together, she will not be a virgin. She will only have been a virgin for that brief period of time you knew her but hadn't had sex with her yet. Of course you could keep her as a virgin if you both insist on never having sex. That way you could be married to a virgin for a very long time.
I suspect it is not a virgin that you are after, but instead, you want a woman who hasn't had sex with someone other than you.
Why is that? Are you afraid of disease? Are you afraid of being compared to her other men? Why are you willing to give up on a woman who potentially you love and have a great friendship with because she had sex in her past before she knew you?
Why is virginity so important to you?
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07-10-2013, 02:12 PM
RE: Hanging on to "christian" morality
IMHO - waiting for marriage is seriously overrated. You are likely to meet someone who is not a virgin, given your age, and she will need to be patient with you as you "get up to speed." No progressive people in the US would hold anything against someone for having had sex before, and it improves your ability to land that person who you end up marrying. Although I waited until 1 year after I had lost my faith, at present I would never marry anyone who I did not KNOW I was sexually compatible with. It's likely that your future spouse, if NOT a christian, will feel similarly, especially in europe.

And don't worry, everyone feels a bit out of touch when this issue comes up. Maybe this will lighten the topic up a bit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwNVE37BGVE

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

Martin Luther was the "father" of two movements - The Reformation and Nazism.
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08-10-2013, 02:38 AM
RE: Hanging on to "christian" morality
I think you are very unlikely to find an nice atheist virgin who shares your view on waiting until marriage to have sex, who is attracted to you, and you to her, and whom you will spend the rest of your life with. In my humble opinion sex is not nearly as big of deal as you are making it out to be. Even the overwhelming majority of Christians who preach abstinence outside of marriage have multiple partners during their lifetime. Many of those before marriage, many of those during marriage.

On the other hand, as I have said, sex isn't that big of a deal, so if you aren't up for it, then so be it. It's only as big of a deal as you make it out to be.

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08-10-2013, 12:57 PM
RE: Hanging on to "christian" morality
(08-10-2013 02:38 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  On the other hand, as I have said, sex isn't that big of a deal...
Ohhh, and the first time, isn't necessarily spectacular.
If she has her hymen intact then there is blood and possibly pain for her.
You also might be a bit self conscious about the whole thing.

The first time is best just to get it over and done with, then move on from there.
Sure make it special (memorable) if you want. But then it is a brief moment of your long life. Why put your whole life on hold due to this brief "first time" experience. There is a first time for everything. First time riding a bike, first time kissing a girl, first time eating kiwifruit. Do they all have to be special, with just the right bike, just the right kiwifruit????
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08-10-2013, 12:59 PM
RE: Hanging on to "christian" morality
(07-10-2013 12:25 PM)als77 Wrote:  I'll try to be more precise: I want to WAIT with sex until I am married. I am one of the few (call it brainwashed or broken if you want) that (still) believe sex is something special and therefor should only be shared with your spouse. It is an emotional thing and it is (unfortunately) something that is deeply rooted in me, even after loosing my faith.

My problem is that, since it is such a big emotional thing for me, I will have big problems accepting my spouse to not have the same views/background regarding waiting with sex til marriage. And there are not many (atheistic) women that do want to wait til marriage, especially not at my age...

@elk: I am of course not looking for a church-wedding Smile But my highest dream for the last 15 years or so, had been to find someone to share my life with. I also want the commitment that is (or used to be) in a marriage. So when I talk about marriage, I really am talking about a formal commitment. Borgerlig vielse med andre ord. Fant forresten ikke noe st√łtende i innlegget ditt, og jeg lette godt! hehe
It has been pointed out before, but you have two objectives:
1. finding a soul mate to share your life with, and
2. abstinence until marriage (and asking the same of your partner)
which of these two objectives is more important?
Would you rather
A. find a soulmate to share your life with who is not a virgin, or
B. stay a single virgin the rest of your life.
I think the choice is easy.

By requiring your partner to be a virgin, you have eliminated 95% of
potential partners. You have made yourself unattainable for women,
put yourself in an ivory tower. I think you are more guided by feelings
of insecurity than by rationality.

I wonder though. Have you dated women? And if you did, did sex become an issue?

The fact that this has become such a "big thing" is now a problem. I think you should
deal with this problem head-on and lose your virginity ASAP. That means that you need some courage to jump in the trenches and get involved with women
sexually and otherwise. After that, it won't be such a "big thing" anymore
and I think it would be easier then to find a special connection to some nice lady.
Good luck!
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08-10-2013, 04:00 PM
RE: Hanging on to "christian" morality
I LOVE TO FUCK!!! er, I mean, make love....

Most women want to have raunchy sex, but wait for you to be raunchy so they can be too. In the Game, this is called "anti-slut defense" - in other words, they don't want you to think they are worse than you are....so they pretend until they can gauge you.

Really my man, are you sure this isn't some deep fear of your sexual performance that is holding you back? What if you die tomorrow in a car accident - do you really want to die a virgin?

My life would not be complete without all of the great sex with all of the great women who I've met. Man, if I had it to do over again, I would have started A LOT sooner and NOT turned down so many awesome chicks in HS and college. What a waste.

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

Martin Luther was the "father" of two movements - The Reformation and Nazism.
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09-10-2013, 03:59 PM
RE: Hanging on to "christian" morality
I'm an athiest but I consider myself a christian athiest, because of the values, or morality that I picked up and sometimes I use as guidence.

I don't have that issue with finding the right person to loose my virginity to, I actually lost that when I was 15 and have enjoyed better experiences since then

One thing I did keep was not having any tatoos, my reasoning was christian based at first, but then I thought about it and came up with the conclusion that I don't want anything permenant on my body, I get tired of looking at the same photos all the time thats why I constantly change all the wallpaper on my computer and phone. Plus after a couple of years alot of them look outdated.

I can give you some advice that I learned from Human Sexuality course I took in college though. that is:

There are 7 billion people in the world there are more people that you are compatable with then just one. If there was only one person ment for you, what if that person was all the way in China you would never meet them.
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20-10-2013, 04:29 PM
RE: Hanging on to "christian" morality
I have never been to Norway and I have to admit to a complete lack of knowledge of anything Norwegian. So all of my opinions are going to be based on my own personal experience in the USA.

Christian morality is a lie. There are more disturbing rules and regulations in Christianity than good ones.

(05-10-2013 10:42 AM)als77 Wrote:  I ask this since it is a huge no-no to be a virgin in Norway (even when I were a devoted conservative christian it seemed hard to find equal-minded people)
I am so confused as to why it would be a no-no to be a virgin? Why do other people care if you are a virgin and more importantly why do other people know that you are a virgin? You don't have to be religious to stand up to peer pressure. If you find someone and you want to have sex with them then go for it, if not then don't.
I wish I had better advice. The last time I heard anyone demean someone for being a virgin was in middle school. If you want to know what we did then, we lied. Oh yea I have sex, I have sex all the time, twice a night. If you think that would work in your situation then do that.
People will judge you no matter what you do. If you lose your virginity they will just find another reason. My best advice is to just do what you feel is right for yourself and try not to worry about what other people think.
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20-10-2013, 06:10 PM
RE: Hanging on to "christian" morality
Sex is just assisted masturbation. If you are obstaining from sex but are masturbating then your a hypocrite.

If you are not masturbating then you have a serious medical condition and need to seek help asap.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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21-10-2013, 03:25 PM
RE: Hanging on to "christian" morality
Sex can be a big deal or not. That's a matter of interpretation and taste. You can have people who are utterly promiscuous and love the idea of jumping into bed with a different partner every night. Or maybe multiple times every night. With multiple partners. (Use protection and get tested often if you go to this extreme, but otherwise have fun and know that I'm not judging!) You can have the "serial monogamy", where you wait until the relationship is fairly serious, and think of sex as being something extra-special that you do with someone you really love. There's no right or wrong way to go about it. (... er, consenting adults only, THEN there's no right or wrong way to go about it.) There's "true for everyone" versus "true for you", and the "true for you" stuff is something you need to figure out for yourself. That said, you should recognize that an understanding of sex based on no personal experience is almost certainly flawed.

I don't have a high value for marriage above and beyond "committed, long-term relationship", but that's because I value the committed long-term relationship pretty highly and don't see marriage as adding much to it. That's a me-thing, though.

There is, however, a huuuge middle ground between "sex is meaningless fun" and "sex is so important that it's only for marriage", and I think you'd be happier somewhere nearer the marriage extreme than near the meaningless extreme, at least to start with.

Speaking as someone who was in his 30s when he discarded his virginity (lost? I didn't lose it, I know exactly where I left it!) in a society where virginity at that age is extremely rare, I'll agree that there are certain hurdles in having sex for the first time that younger people don't experience, which go above and beyond convictions or desire. In my case it wasn't that I had any religious convictions. It was just that I was extremely shy and awkward and always managed to talk myself out of getting anywhere with women, not even dates or dancing. (Or with men, but I don't swing that way.) The longer you hold off on it the huger it gets in your head and you come to think that you'll never overcome whatever hurdle of inexperience you identify as what's holding you back. It becomes scary, not because it's scary in its own right, but because it's something you've inflated into such a huge thing.

(Nononono! Hold off everyone! This is NOT the thread for discussing huge inflatables!)

There's basically two potential routes. (Well, three, if you count holding out for marriage.) First, cross your fingers and go the meaningless route just the one time to get it over with. Go to bars, proposition five women and get slapped four times. Maybe hit a club and drink until you relax enough to get past the block and get into the groove. Or, you know, until you wake up in a bath of ice with a scar where your kidney used to be. The point here isn't to have fun getting laid the first time, the point here is to get past the mental block so it doesn't get in the way in the future. This is the rip-the-bandaid-off approach, and I don't recommend it for you.

Second approach: Focus on developing a romantic relationship first. Find someone who wants to build up that relationship. Be open with your partner early on that you want to develop the relationship a bit before getting sexual. Don't reveal your virginity on the first date, but do talk about it before having sex. Ideally this should be someone who isn't a virgin, because one big mental block of awkwardness is hard enough to overcome without a second one there as well. But in either case, don't be picky. It should be someone who's tolerant, who you trust enough to let teach you and take the lead, and enough to reveal embarrassing things to. (And you WILL embarrass yourself the first time, just like someone driving a car the first time will embarrass themselves. Just accept that ahead of time as part of the learning process and know that it will get better, and follow her lead.) Realize that sex will be a means expanding the scope of your relationship, rather than being the point of it. Also, remember that intimacy occurs at many levels, and that things like cuddling and falling asleep together can help build up the physical trust and comfort that can get you past the block.

This second approach is the one I would suggest for you, if you decide that holding out for marriage isn't preferable or viable.
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