Harambe the Gorilla
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03-06-2016, 12:04 PM
RE: Harambe the Gorilla
(03-06-2016 11:34 AM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(03-06-2016 12:23 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Honestly I don't know if I care more about the life of a stranger human child vs a stranger gorilla. I probably would value the life of a known gorilla over a stranger human.

I know many people who have pets have said that they value their pet's life over that of a stranger.

But ultimately I am not emotionally invested in this case. I get, given how humans value ourselves over other animals, that there were no options. That is, no other sure-fire options that ended with a minimally injured, but almost gauranteed alive child..

As to people valuing their pets over other humans it is the type of person who doesn't know the difference between a dog and a person, mostly women who never had kids calling to their cat "Come to mommy.' How uterly sick can a person get. My neighbor here in the Dominican Republic a 68 year old English speaking Canadian introduces people to "My son Brutus," Brutus being a 140 lb dog. He shot at a motorcyclist that he thinks is the one who kicked at his dog. Take note the accused kicker didn't connect and didn't hurt the dog in any manner, just swung out his foot as the Brute chased his motorcycle.
As I've grown and learned--realizing humans are just another animal on this planet--yet a far more destructive and blood-thirsty animal than the rest. I still love my fellow humans, but I don't think of us as objectively more valuable than other animals. Aside from my own tribal bias of preserving my species. But logically, we are just animals. Are our lives really on a pedestal above the rest?

I may not be one who practices what I preach as I am no PETA member/sympathizer, and no vegetarian. I'm just "thinking out loud".

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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03-06-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: Harambe the Gorilla
As I would have like a more peaceful occurrence. I have to think that the zookeepers weighted the options.

I think we can all agree that had the kid not acted so stupidly none of this would have occurred. I recall a time when I was very young and was only joking about hoping the fence at a zoo. Only to be greeted with a quick knock on the side of the head from my father saying "Don't be stupid."

Hopefully this will be a strong lesson to the child.

I'm am not a parent. But I have worked, and lived with children. And now how much a hand full it can be to try to keep watch 24/7. But from what I've heard the child was joking prior to the event about jumping into the enclosure. Children are poor liars. And maybe this should have brought her attention to him. I don't know I wasn't there.

Now she's thanking God for saving her child. That God was looking over her child while he was in the inclosure. Really? Then you need to get you're money back because God apparently is a louise babysitter not paying attention when you child climb over a fence, bushes and ledge, and took a noise dive into a concreate pond.

If only Ron Burgandy was there.




Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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03-06-2016, 12:34 PM
RE: Harambe the Gorilla
(03-06-2016 11:34 AM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(03-06-2016 12:23 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Honestly I don't know if I care more about the life of a stranger human child vs a stranger gorilla. I probably would value the life of a known gorilla over a stranger human.

I know many people who have pets have said that they value their pet's life over that of a stranger.

But ultimately I am not emotionally invested in this case. I get, given how humans value ourselves over other animals, that there were no options. That is, no other sure-fire options that ended with a minimally injured, but almost gauranteed alive child..

As to people valuing their pets over other humans it is the type of person who doesn't know the difference between a dog and a person, mostly women who never had kids calling to their cat "Come to mommy.' How uterly sick can a person get. My neighbor here in the Dominican Republic a 68 year old English speaking Canadian introduces people to "My son Brutus," Brutus being a 140 lb dog. He shot at a motorcyclist that he thinks is the one who kicked at his dog. Take note the accused kicker didn't connect and didn't hurt the dog in any manner, just swung out his foot as the Brute chased his motorcycle.

We have a leash law in Michigan. Your dog MUST be restrained at all times.

We also have a concealed carry law. And I do carry.

If your dog chases me on a bike - you're pretty likely to lose a dog.

If your dog bites me - you WILL lose a dog.

And you'll be paying my medical bills -- after you get out of jail.

Fuckn people who let their animals run loose, shouldn't be allowed to own animals...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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03-06-2016, 12:46 PM
RE: Harambe the Gorilla
(03-06-2016 12:34 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(03-06-2016 11:34 AM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  As to people valuing their pets over other humans it is the type of person who doesn't know the difference between a dog and a person, mostly women who never had kids calling to their cat "Come to mommy.' How uterly sick can a person get. My neighbor here in the Dominican Republic a 68 year old English speaking Canadian introduces people to "My son Brutus," Brutus being a 140 lb dog. He shot at a motorcyclist that he thinks is the one who kicked at his dog. Take note the accused kicker didn't connect and didn't hurt the dog in any manner, just swung out his foot as the Brute chased his motorcycle.

We have a leash law in Michigan. Your dog MUST be restrained at all times.

We also have a concealed carry law. And I do carry.

If your dog chases me on a bike - you're pretty likely to lose a dog.

If your dog bites me - you WILL lose a dog.

And you'll be paying my medical bills -- after you get out of jail.

Fuckn people who let their animals run loose, shouldn't be allowed to own animals...

I work on Tribal Land. No one here has their dogs on leashes. The Dogs own this village. They walk in busy traffic streets. They show up every once and a while on the casino property. And try to get into the casino.

They're friendly enough it not a threat. But it is a hassle.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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03-06-2016, 01:39 PM
RE: Harambe the Gorilla
(03-06-2016 12:34 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(03-06-2016 11:34 AM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  As to people valuing their pets over other humans it is the type of person who doesn't know the difference between a dog and a person, mostly women who never had kids calling to their cat "Come to mommy.' How uterly sick can a person get. My neighbor here in the Dominican Republic a 68 year old English speaking Canadian introduces people to "My son Brutus," Brutus being a 140 lb dog. He shot at a motorcyclist that he thinks is the one who kicked at his dog. Take note the accused kicker didn't connect and didn't hurt the dog in any manner, just swung out his foot as the Brute chased his motorcycle.

We have a leash law in Michigan. Your dog MUST be restrained at all times.

We also have a concealed carry law. And I do carry.

If your dog chases me on a bike - you're pretty likely to lose a dog.

If your dog bites me - you WILL lose a dog.

And you'll be paying my medical bills -- after you get out of jail.

Fuckn people who let their animals run loose, shouldn't be allowed to own animals...

I'm a dog owner but I completely agree with you. You would never have to shoot my dogs because I care enough about them to keep them on-leash. I wouldn't mind at all if you killed a few of the ones running around here off-leash.
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03-06-2016, 02:41 PM
RE: Harambe the Gorilla
Imma skirt the whole debate and get to the meat in the sandwich.

Zoos are wrong.

Sorry, that's all I've got.

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03-06-2016, 03:01 PM
RE: Harambe the Gorilla
I'm not simply arguing that "animals are as good as people". This whole conversation about dogs shows the base of the problem I'm trying to get to, namely that while dogs may indeed be able to recognize themselves and show emotional reactions just like ours on fMRI scans, they are not the same as a species of endangered Great Apes.

The gorilla is increasingly being recognized as being sentient in the same way we are (and our ancestors of like-sized brains were), and not simply the "wild animal" image of them that has been so long in the popular zeitgeist. Scientifically speaking, there is little reason (other than the "preserve our own tribe" mentality, mentioned by Adrianime) to treat them as less valuable than we are and, given their endangered status, every reason to say that we should take very seriously any decision to treat ending the life of a gorilla as anything but an absolute Last Resort.

But I didn't start this thread for the purpose of trying to second-guess the zookeepers. It was for the purpose of discussing the gap between the evolutionary view of our close-cousin species, the chimps and gorillas, and that of the Creationists who think that we are literally separate from all other species and created "in the image of" celestial beings. There are real-world ramification of this underlying worldview.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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03-06-2016, 03:07 PM
RE: Harambe the Gorilla
(03-06-2016 03:01 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  But I didn't start this thread for the purpose of trying to second-guess the zookeepers. It was for the purpose of discussing the gap between the evolutionary view of our close-cousin species, the chimps and gorillas, and that of the Creationists who think that we are literally separate from all other species and created "in the image of" celestial beings. There are real-world ramification of this underlying worldview.

We should start shooting Creationists? OK, sign me up! Laugh out load

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03-06-2016, 03:13 PM
RE: Harambe the Gorilla
(03-06-2016 03:07 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(03-06-2016 03:01 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  But I didn't start this thread for the purpose of trying to second-guess the zookeepers. It was for the purpose of discussing the gap between the evolutionary view of our close-cousin species, the chimps and gorillas, and that of the Creationists who think that we are literally separate from all other species and created "in the image of" celestial beings. There are real-world ramification of this underlying worldview.

We should start shooting Creationists? OK, sign me up! Laugh out load

Shooting is too good for them Tongue
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03-06-2016, 03:25 PM
RE: Harambe the Gorilla
(03-06-2016 08:22 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  But there is a difference between safety railing, which stops an accident from happening, and a full gate, which might stop somebody from intentionally entering. From what I've heard/read, the kid intentionally did this.

You think toddlers have intent?

#sigh
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