Harmonizing the Gospels
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26-08-2015, 04:27 PM
RE: Harmonizing the Gospels
(26-08-2015 01:49 PM)Leo Wrote:  The gospels don't know agree about the timing of the crucifixion . In Mark Jesus was crucified at 9:00 am and John put the crucifixion at about noon.

Mark, Witness #1: "I was sitting there in the Wendy's, eating my breakfast, when I heard a bang and something came crashing through the drive-through."

John, Witness #2: "Well, I was coming back from my lunch break and saw the car crash into the drive-through window of the McDonald's."

Officer: "You guys weren't really there, were you?"

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26-08-2015, 04:37 PM
RE: Harmonizing the Gospels
(26-08-2015 04:27 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(26-08-2015 01:49 PM)Leo Wrote:  The gospels don't know agree about the timing of the crucifixion . In Mark Jesus was crucified at 9:00 am and John put the crucifixion at about noon.

Mark, Witness #1: "I was sitting there in the Wendy's, eating my breakfast, when I heard a bang and something came crashing through the drive-through."

John, Witness #2: "Well, I was coming back from my lunch break and saw the car crash into the drive-through window of the McDonald's."

Officer: "You guys weren't really there, were you?"

But if you read them together it all makes sense *eye roll* Laugh out load You see, Wendy's was across the street from McD's and Witness 1 considers breakfast time to be at
11 am, Witness 2 considers lunchtime to be at 11 am. Just because someone was sitting at the restaurant or coming back from lunch, doesn't mean both witnesses could not have seen said events. See, harmony yay! Tongue

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26-08-2015, 04:44 PM
RE: Harmonizing the Gospels
Damnit, Jennybee, now I have to become a Christian!

Why'd you do that!?! Why!?!

Weeping

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26-08-2015, 04:50 PM
RE: Harmonizing the Gospels
(26-08-2015 01:49 PM)Leo Wrote:  The gospels don't know agree about the timing of the crucifixion . In Mark Jesus was crucified at 9:00 am and John put the crucifixion at about noon.

It's worse than that. They can't even agree on the day.

The day before Passover?

Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover. John 18:28

And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. John 19:14-16

or the day after Passover?

And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? Mark 14:12
And it was the third hour, and they crucified him. Mark 15:25

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26-08-2015, 05:22 PM
RE: Harmonizing the Gospels
(26-08-2015 04:37 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(26-08-2015 04:27 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Mark, Witness #1: "I was sitting there in the Wendy's, eating my breakfast, when I heard a bang and something came crashing through the drive-through."

John, Witness #2: "Well, I was coming back from my lunch break and saw the car crash into the drive-through window of the McDonald's."

Officer: "You guys weren't really there, were you?"

But if you read them together it all makes sense *eye roll* Laugh out load You see, Wendy's was across the street from McD's and Witness 1 considers breakfast time to be at
11 am, Witness 2 considers lunchtime to be at 11 am. Just because someone was sitting at the restaurant or coming back from lunch, doesn't mean both witnesses could not have seen said events. See, harmony yay! Tongue

I think the more likely explanation is they went to both McDonalds and Wendys and were there for several hours getting their times confused and lied to the cops because they're stoned off their asses.
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26-08-2015, 05:26 PM
RE: Harmonizing the Gospels
Which raises an interesting, more general question:

WHICH DRUG BEST EXPLAINS EACH BOOK OF THE BIBLE?

I'm going to say that Revelations is best explained by acid.
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26-08-2015, 05:38 PM
RE: Harmonizing the Gospels
(26-08-2015 05:26 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Which raises an interesting, more general question:

WHICH DRUG BEST EXPLAINS EACH BOOK OF THE BIBLE?

I'm going to say that Revelations is best explained by acid.

I was going to say mushrooms. I don't think they had invented LSD yet. Thumbsup

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26-08-2015, 06:44 PM
RE: Harmonizing the Gospels
(25-08-2015 04:54 PM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  I commonly hear theists talk about biblical harmonization, especially when referring to the gospels.

My general approach has been that those who take what a certain gospel says, combine it with what another says, kind of create another version of their own which isn't the way the gospels came down to us. They create their own NEW version which is completely unlike any of the gospels in the NT. Once you do this you're refusing to read them as they were produced and this destroys the integrity (ha!) of the gospels as they stand and steals from each author's own understanding of who Jesus was and what he said or did (if in fact he existed at all).

My question is this...I also often hear theists say that you have to read the gospels like you are at the scene of an accident. Every witness is going to have a different version of the same story. Leaving aside the claim that the gospels are not first hand accounts, how do you refute this claim? I've always had trouble with it because to me it logically makes sense. It is true that different people will have different stories at an accident. Some will forget some details and others will remember them. You may even have a person or two who thought that they saw something that they really didn't. Sub-stories may not jive completely but it all adds up to the same basic story-line.

What are your thoughts?

The gospels were written by communities with agendas. They are not history, or biography. They are faith literature written by communities to proclaim what they had experienced as the "good news". One of the most obvious examples is John. It's all cast in Greek gnostic terms, and intended to portray Jesus as the paschal lamb. In order to do that, the author changed the day of the crucifixion, as well as a number of other things. The synoptics say Jesus was silent at trial. In John he gives a long speech. each was addressed to specific groups, which is one reason they were so different.

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26-08-2015, 06:53 PM
RE: Harmonizing the Gospels
(26-08-2015 05:38 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  
(26-08-2015 05:26 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Which raises an interesting, more general question:

WHICH DRUG BEST EXPLAINS EACH BOOK OF THE BIBLE?

I'm going to say that Revelations is best explained by acid.

I was going to say mushrooms. I don't think they had invented LSD yet. Thumbsup

They had LSA, though, since barley grows in the region.

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26-08-2015, 06:59 PM
RE: Harmonizing the Gospels
(26-08-2015 06:53 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(26-08-2015 05:38 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  I was going to say mushrooms. I don't think they had invented LSD yet. Thumbsup

They had LSA, though, since barley grows in the region.

There are a number of videos on YouTube, a few by credible scholars, who have the "mushroom" theory. The plant appears too often in the art of the period not to have been important in some way. But there were 100s of Books of revelation... they just picked this one for the Bible. It was a fad in literature.

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