Has America created a dictatorship?
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24-12-2014, 09:05 AM
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
(21-12-2014 12:08 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  I would never use a subsidy. I would never use food stamps. Or welfare. Even if I were eligible. I've worked two jobs when needed, and so has my girlfriend.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Why the hell not? The problem with subsidies, welfare, etc. isn't the principle of them, but the abuse. It's when people who don't really need them collect them anyway. But, in principle, they're not much different than insurance. A pool of people pay in so that when a few from the pool are in dire straits, there is help available.

Republicans have made the word "welfare" akin to profanity. And they're doing all they can to do the same with Obamacare. And it's because they can't see past their personal wallets enough to realize that even they would ultimately be paying less if they would invest their energy into making it work properly - fixing the problems - instead of trying to tear it down. But, even if they could come to realize that, it still wouldn't be the politically advantageous thing to do unless their voters could come to the same realization. That's a tall order and, in large part, because they've created it.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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24-12-2014, 10:44 AM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2014 11:00 AM by Patriot10mm.)
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
(24-12-2014 09:05 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(21-12-2014 12:08 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  I would never use a subsidy. I would never use food stamps. Or welfare. Even if I were eligible. I've worked two jobs when needed, and so has my girlfriend.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Why the hell not? The problem with subsidies, welfare, etc. isn't the principle of them, but the abuse. It's when people who don't really need them collect them anyway. But, in principle, they're not much different than insurance. A pool of people pay in so that when a few from the pool are in dire straits, there is help available.

Republicans have made the word "welfare" akin to profanity. And they're doing all they can to do the same with Obamacare. And it's because they can't see past their personal wallets enough to realize that even they would ultimately be paying less if they would invest their energy into making it work properly - fixing the problems - instead of trying to tear it down. But, even if they could come to realize that, it still wouldn't be the politically advantageous thing to do unless their voters could come to the same realization. That's a tall order and, in large part, because they've created it.

Republicans have a problem with welfare because of the race issue. Not the racist issue, the race issue. People accuse republicans of being racist for being against welfare. Let me explain. I'm speaking about America here, not sure how it goes in other countries.

The fact is, and you can research this, white people make up about 39% of welfare recipients. Blacks also make up about 39% of welfare recipients. The problem is, blacks are only 13% of the population. What does that translate to?

American population: 316,000,000
Black population 13.2%: 41,712,000
White population 77.7%: 245,532,000

Welfare population: 12,800,000
Black welfare %: 39%
White welfare %: 40%
Number of blacks on welfare: 4,992,000
Number of whites on welfare: 5,120,000

% of blacks on welfare: 12%
% of whites on welfare: 2%

The numbers are even higher for food stamps, and the prison incarceration figures are off the charts in comparison for blacks in prison. This all amounts to a large chunk of blacks getting government funded living, whether in prison or welfare/food stamps. Probably over half of blacks in America are being fed/sheltered/funded from the government in some form.


Republicans are commonly accused of being racist. Now, I know that a lot of the racist whites in the country lean right, especially the vocal ones like KKK and their type. But those type of people are so rare and it's unfair to label all republicans racist. I, along with most of the people I associate with, are republicans. My military friends, my NRA shooting buddies, everyone. I see no racists among them. We support Americans that work hard, no matter the race. We support black political candidates that have republican ideals. I went to a Darius Rucker concert (black country singer) and saw 20,000 hillbilly white people in cowboy hats, but not one black fan (isn't that racist?). It's a CULTURE issue. We don't believe "The Man" is keeping black people down. There is no conspiracy by republicans to keep them down. A black man has reached the presidency. I voted for him the first time and donated money to his campaign.

Republicans aren't against welfare. They're not against blacks. Republicans are against the culture that is now rippling through black society in America. When 13% of the population is committing HALF of the murders, and three times as likely to commit aggravated assault, 7 times more likely to commit robbery, there is a problem in that culture. That's not racist to say. It's just a fact. It's perceived as racism to be against culture, what should we call it? Culturism? Anti-culture? But it's not racism.

The true racists are on the left. They want the blacks out of the way. Kept together in ghettos, housing projects, prison and government housing. Give them handouts so they don't need jobs. Keep them under control where they can be watched.

Republicans support people of any race that act like, well, REPUBLICANS. A recent Pew research poll revealed that only 10% of republicans have received food stamps/welfare. It's not in our nature to accept handouts from the government. We'll work 3 jobs if we have to. Republicans are also much more likely to network help through churches. We don't want subsidized health care. We'll work and pay for our own.

Death is a debt we all must pay.
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24-12-2014, 11:21 AM
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
What an utter, complete load of crap. Republicans are against welfare because they don't want to give their "own hard-earned money" to "free-loaders".

Maybe the race factors are why YOU'RE against welfare.

Regarding blacks and their position in society in the US, the issues are a complex web of cultural, societal, and political factors of which you just demonstrated you know very little.

(24-12-2014 10:44 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  The true racists are on the left. They want the blacks out of the way. Kept together in ghettos, housing projects, prison and government housing. Give them handouts so they don't need jobs. Keep them under control where they can be watched.

This is the common misconception of people that have no understanding of the problems blacks face; and it's utter BS.

And, by the way, not all blacks can be lumped into a single category when discussing issues related to blacks. So that adds another degree of complexity when discussing the related issues.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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24-12-2014, 11:38 AM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2014 11:41 AM by Patriot10mm.)
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
The problems black face? Blacks do face problems. They walk out their door and have to worry about another black robbing them. They have to worry another black is going to burglarize their home while they're gone.

How is it that some blacks are able to do just fine in America? They don't rob or steal. They become doctors. They don't run around playing the knockout game. They don't listen to rap music that glorifies killing police, killing each other, smacking women.

If ALL blacks, every single one of them, moved away from this culture of thuggishness, stopped impregnating multiple women and leaving their children to be raised by the mother alone, stopped the robberies, assaults, burglaries and drug use, their communities would change over night.

Plenty of blacks abandon that lifestyle and do just fine. The excuses are running out, and Americans are starting to see it when they see the looting and riots on TV. They see criminals become heroes. They watch as people refuse the orders of police, resist arrest, then complain when bad things happen.

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24-12-2014, 11:59 AM
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
(24-12-2014 11:38 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  The problems black face? Blacks do face problems.

For starters, what you just said is part of their problems.

(24-12-2014 11:38 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  They walk out their door and have to worry about another black robbing them. They have to worry another black is going to burglarize their home while they're gone.

For some, this is true. Why do you suppose this is? How did it come to be that they are in this position? And, before you say it's because blacks are at fault for doing the stealing, I'm asking, among other things, how did it come to be that those blacks are doing the stealing? (Hint: History, society, politics, culture, poverty - just some of the factors.)

(24-12-2014 11:38 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  How is it that some blacks are able to do just fine in America? They don't rob or steal. They become doctors. They don't run around playing the knockout game. They don't listen to rap music that glorifies killing police, killing each other, smacking women.

Yes, it's interesting, isn't it. And it's also disproportionate. There will always be people who break the mold - who do well despite all that's against them - or who have different opportunities including some being used by some others for political gain. The reasons are many and complex. This also illustrates what I meant when I said not all blacks can be put in the same category.

(24-12-2014 11:38 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  If ALL blacks, every single one of them, moved away from this culture of thuggishness, stopped impregnating multiple women and leaving their children to be raised by the mother alone, stopped the robberies, assaults, burglaries and drug use, their communities would change over night.

It would certainly help, but it's also very easy to say. Again, why did they end up in this pattern in the first place? Why do so many already understand exactly what you just said, but still don't change? It's not nearly as simple or convenient as you want to make it. Go read some Sociology books. I can't really educate you here on a messageboard. It literally would take books to explain it all and to get the true picture. I have read some of those books myself and I can tell you, even so, I don't completely understand it all. It's far too complex.

(24-12-2014 11:38 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  Plenty of blacks abandon that lifestyle and do just fine. The excuses are running out, and Americans are starting to see it when they see the looting and riots on TV. They see criminals become heroes. They watch as people refuse the orders of police, resist arrest, then complain when bad things happen.

What you see is the product of history, society, culture, politics, poverty, racism, economics, and a variety of other factors - as much as you would like to make it only about choice.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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24-12-2014, 12:15 PM
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
All I see are excuses about the past. Blacks that have moved here, rather than born here, seem to do fine. I'm talking about new immigrants from Africa. They open businesses, get jobs, work hard.

Asians were treated bad in the past, used as slaves to build railroads, yet they have no problems integrating into American society. Hispanics are coming here in record numbers and even as illegals are able to get jobs and for the most part do something. It's just one group that seems to be struggling the most, still, after all these years. Come on, eventually it's time to handle your own problems as a group.

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24-12-2014, 12:31 PM
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
(24-12-2014 12:15 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  All I see are excuses about the past. Blacks that have moved here, rather than born here, seem to do fine. I'm talking about new immigrants from Africa. They open businesses, get jobs, work hard.

Yes, it's obvious that's all you see. Read some Sociology books. Seriously. It's not rocket science. You just need an education. (Not a criticism, just an observation of fact.)

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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24-12-2014, 01:23 PM
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
Here's an attempt to illustrate (and I probably won't do this justice). Keep in mind, this is about a specific group of blacks, not all blacks.

A black woman has 3 or 4 kids. The father is nowhere in the picture anymore. The woman works 2 or 3 jobs because none of them pay very well. She never finished high school so these jobs are all she can get. While she's working, if she's lucky, a relative watches the kids. Or, more likely at least when the kids are older, no one is watching the kids. The kids don't get the proper attention and support at home with anything from help with schoolwork to moral guidance to resolving personal problems or dealing with a sickness. They may not grow up with the same sense of being valued that kids do in more economically stable families. The kids have to learn to deal with it all themselves.

But they are kids and, without proper supervision and support, they will stray. So homework doesn't get done, rules get broken or aren't learned in the first place, and they often get into trouble hanging around friends who are in similar troubled situations in their homes.

Moreover, in this example, these are inner city kids going to inner city schools. Teachers there may not be of the same quality as in schools elsewhere. These troubled kids can be constantly disruptive too and quality of education suffers for everyone in those classes. With so many of these kids not doing their homework and not getting support at home, not much learning really happens. Eventually, many will simply drop out and never graduate high school. Others will graduate and never go on further because they have to work to help support their impoverished families. These issues around education are why the mother mentioned at the beginning never finished high school.

In this troubled living situation, many pregnancies out of wedlock happen. It's easy to point the finger and say they shouldn't have sex if they can't afford the kids, but they are human like anyone else and sex happens. And then the man, not wanting to take responsibility for the baby (because he didn't learn responsbility in his household where his single mother had to work and wasn't around much), takes off and leaves the woman with the baby. She may choose not to abort for religious or personal reasons and so she is stuck with the responsibility of raising the baby. She may turn to welfare because someone has to take care of the baby and she can't do that while at work. Along comes another man. The woman needs help with the kid. Maybe she sleeps with this new man before marriage in hopes of establishing a longer-term relationship, but he too gets her pregnant and leaves. This is one way many black women end up as a single parent of several kids. And it's why the father mentioned at the beginning is no longer in the picture.

The kids growing up in these single parent households where the mother isn't around much because she has to work multiple jobs aren't taught a sense of responsibility. This has much to do with irresponsible choices that are made later - such as neglecting school work, having many kids when there is no money to support them, or getting involved with drugs. They hang around the wrong crowd, get into trouble, often serious trouble. They face an environment the is rough - bully or be bullied - and bullying can be very violent. Many live in constant fear. Psychologically and socially, this can be very damaging and that mental states impacts their ability to concentrate and therefore work or succeed at completing an education.

Meanwhile, they see so many other black people around them living the same existence. This squashes their hope that it can ever be any better for them. It's all a viscious cycle that they don't know how to break. And they do face racism and discrimination as well which adds to everything else holding them back. Their own culture blames society, whites, and even themselves for their problems. This stirs up anger and frustration, but still gives them no solutions. The anger and frustration can lead to more poor choices and trouble. Often, even when someone does attempt a different, better choice, they get so much backlash from others around them that they either don't succeed or it causes others to avoid doing the same.

This just barely touches on a small number of issues many black people face. I doubt I have done even this much justice. There is so much more, so many different circumstances, and so many interwoven factors that make it extremely difficult to improve their lives. It can be far easier to give up out of hopelessness, not seeing any better opportunities or how to obtain them, and many do just that - because again, they are human. But I hope I have given you a taste of why it's a very complex issue and why it's not so easy for them to simply make different choices and improve their lives.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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24-12-2014, 02:07 PM
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
(24-12-2014 01:23 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Here's an attempt to illustrate (and I probably won't do this justice). Keep in mind, this is about a specific group of blacks, not all blacks.

A black woman has 3 or 4 kids. The father is nowhere in the picture anymore. The woman works 2 or 3 jobs because none of them pay very well. She never finished high school so these jobs are all she can get. While she's working, if she's lucky, a relative watches the kids. Or, more likely at least when the kids are older, no one is watching the kids. The kids don't get the proper attention and support at home with anything from help with schoolwork to moral guidance to resolving personal problems or dealing with a sickness. They may not grow up with the same sense of being valued that kids do in more economically stable families. The kids have to learn to deal with it all themselves.

But they are kids and, without proper supervision and support, they will stray. So homework doesn't get done, rules get broken or aren't learned in the first place, and they often get into trouble hanging around friends who are in similar troubled situations in their homes.

Moreover, in this example, these are inner city kids going to inner city schools. Teachers there may not be of the same quality as in schools elsewhere. These troubled kids can be constantly disruptive too and quality of education suffers for everyone in those classes. With so many of these kids not doing their homework and not getting support at home, not much learning really happens. Eventually, many will simply drop out and never graduate high school. Others will graduate and never go on further because they have to work to help support their impoverished families. These issues around education are why the mother mentioned at the beginning never finished high school.

In this troubled living situation, many pregnancies out of wedlock happen. It's easy to point the finger and say they shouldn't have sex if they can't afford the kids, but they are human like anyone else and sex happens. And then the man, not wanting to take responsibility for the baby (because he didn't learn responsbility in his household where his single mother had to work and wasn't around much), takes off and leaves the woman with the baby. She may choose not to abort for religious or personal reasons and so she is stuck with the responsibility of raising the baby. She may turn to welfare because someone has to take care of the baby and she can't do that while at work. Along comes another man. The woman needs help with the kid. Maybe she sleeps with this new man before marriage in hopes of establishing a longer-term relationship, but he too gets her pregnant and leaves. This is one way many black women end up as a single parent of several kids. And it's why the father mentioned at the beginning is no longer in the picture.

The kids growing up in these single parent households where the mother isn't around much because she has to work multiple jobs aren't taught a sense of responsibility. This has much to do with irresponsible choices that are made later - such as neglecting school work, having many kids when there is no money to support them, or getting involved with drugs. They hang around the wrong crowd, get into trouble, often serious trouble. They face an environment the is rough - bully or be bullied - and bullying can be very violent. Many live in constant fear. Psychologically and socially, this can be very damaging and that mental states impacts their ability to concentrate and therefore work or succeed at completing an education.

Meanwhile, they see so many other black people around them living the same existence. This squashes their hope that it can ever be any better for them. It's all a viscious cycle that they don't know how to break. And they do face racism and discrimination as well which adds to everything else holding them back. Their own culture blames society, whites, and even themselves for their problems. This stirs up anger and frustration, but still gives them no solutions. The anger and frustration can lead to more poor choices and trouble. Often, even when someone does attempt a different, better choice, they get so much backlash from others around them that they either don't succeed or it causes others to avoid doing the same.

This just barely touches on a small number of issues many black people face. I doubt I have done even this much justice. There is so much more, so many different circumstances, and so many interwoven factors that make it extremely difficult to improve their lives. It can be far easier to give up out of hopelessness, not seeing any better opportunities or how to obtain them, and many do just that - because again, they are human. But I hope I have given you a taste of why it's a very complex issue and why it's not so easy for them to simply make different choices and improve their lives.

Oh, great, anecdotes. To quote EK's pic:
[Image: plural-anecdote.jpg]

BTW, P10mm has actually posted some data, I wonder if you will do the same or just keep calling him a racist in an attempt to dismiss him.

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24-12-2014, 02:27 PM
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
So Patriot, what is the answer to the question you raise about blacks not just immediately fixing their own problems and integrating with suburban white society (the same question could be asked about impoverished drug using crime committing whites by the way)? Are blacks just inherently bad/lazy? That appears to be the inference, as you ignore the multitude of factors raised by Impulse. Just how they are, right?

Judge not. Your characterization of liberals as wanting to get blacks out of the way is laughable, as is your comparison of Asian american history to blacks. But brother, there's hope for you!

"Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another right now".
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