Has America created a dictatorship?
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25-12-2014, 01:28 PM (This post was last modified: 25-12-2014 01:34 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
(25-12-2014 12:18 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Not really. Whites make up more than 72% of the US population and blacks less than 13%. That means 13% of whites is nearly 3 times 25% of blacks. Yet the whites get the same amount of assistance as the blacks. My take on those numbers is the whites are either to proud or to stupid to take advantage of what is available to them, or the system is biased against them.

Bad Girly. Fat drunk and stupid is no excuse for bad math. Blush

(21-12-2014 12:08 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  I would never use a subsidy.

Subsidies come in many shapes and sizes. Mortgage interest deduction = subsidy for home ownership. Mortgage interest deduction on second home = subsidy for I dunno what but I use it. Dependent deduction = subsidy for taking care of somebody. Child tax credit = subsidy for having children. Education tax deduction = subsidy for getting edumacated. Tax exemption for health insurance premiums = subsidy for health care insurance. Health care tax deduction = subsidy for the really sick. Tax exempt status for churches and non-profits = subsidy for being charitable. IRA tax deferment = subsidy for saving for retirement. Roth IRA earnings tax exemption = subsidy for saving for retirement. Tax deduction for state and local income taxes = subsidy for living in the Peoples Republic of Maryland. And many many others. You would never consider using any of these?

(25-12-2014 12:18 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Yet the whites get the same amount of assistance as the blacks. My take on those numbers is the whites are either to proud or to stupid to take advantage of what is available to them, or the system is biased against them.

Can't believe it's pride. Subsidies come in so many different shapes and sizes I'll bet that many people complaining about subsidies don't even realize the extent of subsidies they're already getting. It almost seems like subsidies for the upper middle class and above good, subsidies for those that really need them bad.

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27-12-2014, 01:19 AM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2014 02:15 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
(24-12-2014 02:07 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  
(24-12-2014 01:23 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Here's an attempt to illustrate (and I probably won't do this justice). Keep in mind, this is about a specific group of blacks, not all blacks.

A black woman has 3 or 4 kids. The father is nowhere in the picture anymore. The woman works 2 or 3 jobs because none of them pay very well. She never finished high school so these jobs are all she can get. While she's working, if she's lucky, a relative watches the kids. Or, more likely at least when the kids are older, no one is watching the kids. The kids don't get the proper attention and support at home with anything from help with schoolwork to moral guidance to resolving personal problems or dealing with a sickness. They may not grow up with the same sense of being valued that kids do in more economically stable families. The kids have to learn to deal with it all themselves.

But they are kids and, without proper supervision and support, they will stray. So homework doesn't get done, rules get broken or aren't learned in the first place, and they often get into trouble hanging around friends who are in similar troubled situations in their homes.

Moreover, in this example, these are inner city kids going to inner city schools. Teachers there may not be of the same quality as in schools elsewhere. These troubled kids can be constantly disruptive too and quality of education suffers for everyone in those classes. With so many of these kids not doing their homework and not getting support at home, not much learning really happens. Eventually, many will simply drop out and never graduate high school. Others will graduate and never go on further because they have to work to help support their impoverished families. These issues around education are why the mother mentioned at the beginning never finished high school.

In this troubled living situation, many pregnancies out of wedlock happen. It's easy to point the finger and say they shouldn't have sex if they can't afford the kids, but they are human like anyone else and sex happens. And then the man, not wanting to take responsibility for the baby (because he didn't learn responsbility in his household where his single mother had to work and wasn't around much), takes off and leaves the woman with the baby. She may choose not to abort for religious or personal reasons and so she is stuck with the responsibility of raising the baby. She may turn to welfare because someone has to take care of the baby and she can't do that while at work. Along comes another man. The woman needs help with the kid. Maybe she sleeps with this new man before marriage in hopes of establishing a longer-term relationship, but he too gets her pregnant and leaves. This is one way many black women end up as a single parent of several kids. And it's why the father mentioned at the beginning is no longer in the picture.

The kids growing up in these single parent households where the mother isn't around much because she has to work multiple jobs aren't taught a sense of responsibility. This has much to do with irresponsible choices that are made later - such as neglecting school work, having many kids when there is no money to support them, or getting involved with drugs. They hang around the wrong crowd, get into trouble, often serious trouble. They face an environment the is rough - bully or be bullied - and bullying can be very violent. Many live in constant fear. Psychologically and socially, this can be very damaging and that mental states impacts their ability to concentrate and therefore work or succeed at completing an education.

Meanwhile, they see so many other black people around them living the same existence. This squashes their hope that it can ever be any better for them. It's all a viscious cycle that they don't know how to break. And they do face racism and discrimination as well which adds to everything else holding them back. Their own culture blames society, whites, and even themselves for their problems. This stirs up anger and frustration, but still gives them no solutions. The anger and frustration can lead to more poor choices and trouble. Often, even when someone does attempt a different, better choice, they get so much backlash from others around them that they either don't succeed or it causes others to avoid doing the same.

This just barely touches on a small number of issues many black people face. I doubt I have done even this much justice. There is so much more, so many different circumstances, and so many interwoven factors that make it extremely difficult to improve their lives. It can be far easier to give up out of hopelessness, not seeing any better opportunities or how to obtain them, and many do just that - because again, they are human. But I hope I have given you a taste of why it's a very complex issue and why it's not so easy for them to simply make different choices and improve their lives.

Oh, great, anecdotes. To quote EK's pic:
[Image: plural-anecdote.jpg]

BTW, P10mm has actually posted some data, I wonder if you will do the same or just keep calling him a racist in an attempt to dismiss him.

That wasn't an anecdote, it was an illustrate example he was using to make a point, not a single personal data point he was trying to extrapolate far beyond anything reasonable.

Which you might have noticed, if you weren't in such a rush to be a contrarian douchebag. Drinking Beverage

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28-12-2014, 08:16 AM
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
(25-12-2014 11:51 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(25-12-2014 11:39 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  Did you ignore what I said? Iceland was established by Vikings and continues the cultural tradition of the Viking settlers. However, DNA test have shown that most of the women were Gaelic thralls (thrall meaning slave), and considering that they got into the gene pool they must have been raped by their captors. So once again, how can an Icelander be a patriot?

Because they were the ones who established it. Those vikings still left there DNA, so those slaves are also vikings, there for they can be patriots.
(25-12-2014 11:39 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  You are a disgrace to your country. To see someone have such hatred for the land of their birth is truly sad. You really have bought into the leftist lie.

Think I care if I am? I am used to being a disgrace. You ignored me, give me a reason to like the states. Why would I like a science hating, over religous, terroristic, idiotic, genocidal country?

(25-12-2014 11:39 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  And what we did to Iraq being worse than 9/11, how is holding a democratic election worse than killing 3,000 innocents?

Bro if we are going to talk about left you can suck my left nut! How dare you sit there and not even know. AMERICA KILLED 650FUCKING000 people!! in the middle east, civilians and counting. Don't you ever sit there and make that joke again. I know 9/11 was sad, but that does not justify kill that many people in the middle east, no different then it is not right for you to shoot me and my family after I punched you. You are an ignorant pig.

You say that Icelanders can be patriots because the Vikings left their DNA, yet you ignore the fact that nearly all blacks in the US have at least some European ancestry. Some people I don't even realize that they are black because the deciding factor is self-identification. I'd seen Colin Powell on TV multiple times, but I had no clue that be was black until I read his wiki article. Obama is mostly of European descent, but is also considered black.

And even if blacks had not mixed with white, why would that prevent them from being patriotic? You don't have to have a genetic attachment to the majority population of your homeland to be a patriot. Patriotism is about loving you country and culture. It reminds me of a tits-or-America experiment Penn & Teller did, where they hired a bunch of people for what they were told was national security. They had to sit in a surveillance van and watch from a mounted security camera what they were told was the home and car of a terrorist to see if he leaves the house. The whole thing was set up and right next door they hired an actor and actress to put on a show and have sex right in front of the window. The only person who chose America over tits was a man originally from Kenya. The moral of the story is that you don't have to have several hundred year-old roots to love your country.

If anything you are the racist because you seem to think patriotism is some race-based I-don't-know-what the blacks, Asians and the Irish should avoid.

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28-12-2014, 08:47 AM
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
(28-12-2014 08:16 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  You say that Icelanders can be patriots because the Vikings left their DNA, yet you ignore the fact that nearly all blacks in the US have at least some European ancestry. Some people I don't even realize that they are black because the deciding factor is self-identification. I'd seen Colin Powell on TV multiple times, but I had no clue that be was black until I read his wiki article. Obama is mostly of European descent, but is also considered black.

Nearly all blacks have white ancestory? What source did you get this from? Some maybe, and even then white is not the answer, as I said Irish people being patriots also does not make sense, as they too where treated like shit by america for years. The groups I have mentioned above have now just gained rights like the WASP and so they should be patriots? Yeah no.

(28-12-2014 08:16 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  And even if blacks had not mixed with white, why would that prevent them from being patriotic? You don't have to have a genetic attachment to the majority population of your homeland to be a patriot. Patriotism is about loving you country and culture. It reminds me of a tits-or-America experiment Penn & Teller did, where they hired a bunch of people for what they were told was national security. They had to sit in a surveillance van and watch from a mounted security camera what they were told was the home and car of a terrorist to see if he leaves the house. The whole thing was set up and right next door they hired an actor and actress to put on a show and have sex right in front of the window. The only person who chose America over tits was a man originally from Kenya. The moral of the story is that you don't have to have several hundred year-old roots to love your country.

First, america has no "culture" per say. America is a melting pot, with a variety of cultures around or mixed together. Let me put it in terms you will understand.

Negros: Sold to americans to be slaves for more than 200 years. Where beaten, raped, and forced to work days on end and eat nothing but there masters scraps, only to be freed from slavery to be treated like crap for another 60 plus years and then finally get rights

Native americans: Had been slaughtered to the point where they have been reduced to small portions of land and have been treated like crap every since

No wasp europeans: Pretty much treated like slaves up until slavery, then when that was over, treated like crap almost similar to that of negros

Asians: Discriminated and used for cheap labor, than during world war 2 treated like crap because of pearl harbor just because the bombers where asian, therefor it was there fault.

Hispanics: Treated like native americans having their land taken, then had to fight for there own civil rights just like the negros, hell even at the same time.

This discrimination has been going on for 200 years, we have had equal rights for about 50, yeah I still don't get how you can be a patriot in a country that treated and still treats people like crap. Only people I understand loving america is the rich, and that is because they are rich and have little to no problems.

(28-12-2014 08:16 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  If anything you are the racist because you seem to think patriotism is some race-based I-don't-know-what the blacks, Asians and the Irish should avoid.

Racist: a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Strange I don't believe that, I have said that being a patriot makes no sense when you have been treated like crap by a country for years and then love it even though there are better countries to live in.

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28-12-2014, 08:53 AM
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
Colin Powell. Black man. Republican (sort of). Pro choice, pro gay marriage, Supported Obama in 2008 and 2012. Critical of Mitt Romney's foreign policy and economic positions in the last presidential election. On tape referring to many of the republicans currently in congress as "fucking crazies."

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28-12-2014, 09:31 AM
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
(28-12-2014 08:53 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Colin Powell. Black man. Republican (sort of). Pro choice, pro gay marriage, Supported Obama in 2008 and 2012. Critical of Mitt Romney's foreign policy and economic positions in the last presidential election. On tape referring to many of the republicans currently in congress as "fucking crazies."

Seems like a nice guy.

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28-12-2014, 09:48 AM
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
(28-12-2014 09:31 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(28-12-2014 08:53 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Colin Powell. Black man. Republican (sort of). Pro choice, pro gay marriage, Supported Obama in 2008 and 2012. Critical of Mitt Romney's foreign policy and economic positions in the last presidential election. On tape referring to many of the republicans currently in congress as "fucking crazies."

Seems like a nice guy.

He has his faults, but most of the rest of us do too.

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03-01-2015, 10:29 AM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2015 11:39 AM by BnW.)
RE: Has America created a dictatorship?
So, this has been an interesting thread.

Anyway, regarding the orginal question of is the US creating a dictatorship, the answer is "no". On or about January 20, 2017, Obama will willingly relinquish the office and some other knucklehead will take over and probably be just as bad. Dictators don't just get up and leave. So, no, we are not a dictatorship. We are also not a republican democracy either, though, although we claim to be. We are far too controlled by monied interests and the two parties don't really counter each other on most issues. Are the executive orders concerning? Yes some of them certainly are and I also have some concerns over the expanding powers of the Executive Branch that we have seen since Bush took over. At some point in his presidency, Bush and his lawyers decided that the President has the power to pull together list of Americans he can have killed without any due process of law. Obama went further and actually had an American citizen executed without any regard to his 4th, 5th and 6th Amendment rights as an American. If that doesn't scare the shit out of all Americans, than I don't know what could. Regarding the latest orders, Obama claims that all of them are consistent with current statutes and he is not inconsistent with any legislation. Is that true? I don't think it is and I do think it's a problem. Personally, I think he should be impeached. I thought Bush should have been too. Hell, if we can try to impeach a president for lying about a blowjob, then certainly we can impeach a president for the crimes both Bush and Obama seem to be guilty of.

But, despite all that, we are not a dictatorship. At least, not yet we are not.

Regarding the subsidy issue, all I can say is this: Patriot - you should avoid talking in absolutes because there are all kinds of subsidies you take advantage of and don't think twice about. Your mortgage deduction, the tax deduction for your kid(s); these are all government subsidies. And, the amount ordinary Americans take, including people on welfare, is a pittance compared to what we give large corporate interests. Our foreign policy is basically built to accommodate the oil industry. We spend billions on defense in this country, and a lot of that money is to deal with a part of the world that, but for oil, we would have zero involvement with. And then there are there are the contributions the American tax payer makes towards oil exploration, pharmaceutical R&D, agricultural subsidies, etc. Hell, we subsidize the fast food industry on both ends. First we subsidize their input costs, keeping the price of a Big Mac down to under $3.50 - a number that still includes a healthy margin, and then we make it possible for them to pay their employees lower than poverty wages by picking up the difference in their costs of living. If that safety net did not exist, McDonalds' and the like would have a hard time paying what they pay to anyone but high school students because no one could afford to work there.

Anyway, my point is I'd be very, very cautious saying things like "I'd never accept a subsidy" because I assure you that you do. You accept one probably every time you get paid.

Finally, regarding this ugly "who's responsible for the plight of the African Americans" argument, while no one wants to admit this, I think Patriot has a valid point. I don't completely agree with him because I think the reasons we are where we are are a lot more complicating than he is at least stating here. But, there is a lack of accountability in the black community. His points about the destruction of the family unit and black-on-black crime are very true. And, his argument that if you dropped most of these people into better situations most of them would do a whole lot better is probably also true. It's a little too simplistic to just go with a "physician heal thyself" approach to this, but I do think it would be useful if the Al Sharpton's and Jesse Jackson's of the world were as outraged about what goes on in this communities every day as they are about the killing of poor blacks by white cops. And, no, I'm not painting an entire community with one brush. And yes, I understand that there are a lot of issues in play here and that the vast majority of black people don't behave the way Patriot described. But ,the numbers are high enough that those communities have real issues and breaking out of the poverty is increasingly difficult.

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