Has anybody tried to get someone to stop taking Homeopathy?
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14-04-2011, 05:59 PM
 
RE: Has anybody tried to get someone to stop taking Homeopathy?
I'm all for science and modern medicine when indicated, but if it's working for her then what is the problem? The placebo effect is very powerful, this is proven scientifically, am I wrong? So in essences he is using science to let her mind heal her body. You should be thrilled! I guess I'm just not the same kind of atheist as you. Life have survived for millenia without the help of modern medicine, why do you think all of a sudden we need so much help?? She has a point about the drug companies not making money off of homeopathic remedies. I could go on and on but my bottom line is, why do you even care?!!?
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14-04-2011, 09:19 PM
RE: Has anybody tried to get someone to stop taking Homeopathy?
Some facts that the fans of homeopathy might have a hard time swallowing. (get it)
First a little citation from wikipedia:

Hahnemann advocated 30C dilutions for most purposes (that is, dilution by a factor of 10 raised to the power of 60). In Hahnemann's time it was reasonable to assume that remedies could be diluted indefinitely, as the concept of the atom or molecule as the smallest possible unit of a chemical substance was just beginning to be recognized. The greatest dilution that is reasonably likely to contain even one molecule of the original substance is 12C.

A quick google search told me that the number of atoms (not molecules) on the planet is approximately 8.87 x 10 raised to the power of 49. Compare that to the wiki information I just sited and tell me homeopathy isn't bull!

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15-04-2011, 05:49 AM
RE: Has anybody tried to get someone to stop taking Homeopathy?
Basically, homeopathy is the notion that diluted substances can cure their counterpart (like cures like). This is why substances like caffiene are diluted into literally non-existant doses and are sold as homeopathic sleeping pills. To get around the fact that the dosage of active ingredient is non-existant, homeopaths began to claim that water can retain a memory of the substances it came into contact with. This raised the problem of water remembering everything, including sewerage. So by taking homeopathic pills, you are actually taking a very potent solution which, if homeopaths are right, should stop you from crapping (with the aforementioned 'like cures like' concept). Given that homeopathic remedies can reach up to and beyond dilutions of 30C (10^60) - I've even heard of 1000C (10^2000) - the chances of taking a homeopathic pill with even an atom of the original active ingredient are so small, I can't be bothered even calculating it.
If you are fine with the placebo effect benefitting patients, then use actual medical science. When you take an aspirin, your body expects to get better and so the placebo effect helps with your bodies recovery - a 'double whammy'. When you perform keyhole surgery on conscious patients, but don't actually do anything but rummage around, the patient will get a little better, so the patient will benefit even more from the actual surgery. Science does harness the effects of the placebo, if unintentionally, so why on earth would you want to use a mere placebo?
There is a reason why we use evidence based medicine, because it works. The alternatives are placebos, or even nocebos and can actually harm patients - such as blood-letting. Science so far has cured many autoimmune diseases, some cancers, we can now operate on people and give them heart transplants. We have doubled the average life span in the past 100 years, tripled it in the past 200. All with the help of evidenced based medicine.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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15-04-2011, 09:40 AM
 
RE: Has anybody tried to get someone to stop taking Homeopathy?
(14-04-2011 05:59 PM)EarthMama2010 Wrote:  I'm all for science and modern medicine when indicated, but if it's working for her then what is the problem? The placebo effect is very powerful, this is proven scientifically, am I wrong? So in essences he is using science to let her mind heal her body. You should be thrilled! I guess I'm just not the same kind of atheist as you. Life have survived for millenia without the help of modern medicine, why do you think all of a sudden we need so much help?? She has a point about the drug companies not making money off of homeopathic remedies. I could go on and on but my bottom line is, why do you even care?!!?

The placebo effect is not as strong as you may believe. And a medicine is only proven to be effective when it can do better than the placebo.
linky

That said, the danger of homeopathy is extreme. People put their faith in it, believe it works, and come to the terrible false realization that modern science is evil. The same science that brought them warm homes, electricity, plumping, etc. They think they're being lied to by doctors, and as a personal anecdote in this thread pointed out, there are people NOT qualified in medicine telling people what to do with their medication, perscription or no.

The problem, sir, is that when there is a serious medical problem, one that requires medical attention, like say, a simple case of strep throat, then the people who believe in homeopathy are going to resort to that for their children, while their children's condition worsens. Either they'll bite the bullet and go to the hospital to get the antibiotics so badly required, or they'll put blind faith in their snake oil, and their children could very well die because of their idiocy. It has been documented several times before-- children dying from their parents' incompetence.

I have a problem with people who claim that homeopathy works, when they know nothing of biology or chemistry. I always say, get at least a B in a college Chem course, then we'll talk about your homeopathy.
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15-04-2011, 11:50 AM
RE: Has anybody tried to get someone to stop taking Homeopathy?
(15-04-2011 05:49 AM)daemonowner Wrote:  So by taking homeopathic pills, you are actually taking a very potent solution which, if homeopaths are right, should stop you from crapping (with the aforementioned 'like cures like' concept).
Thats Hillarious! Big Grin
(15-04-2011 05:49 AM)daemonowner Wrote:  I've even heard of 1000C (10^2000)

That is quite remarkable, since accordig to wikipedia:

approximate calculations give the number of atoms in the observable universe to be close to 10^80

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15-04-2011, 05:36 PM
RE: Has anybody tried to get someone to stop taking Homeopathy?
@Norseman Bear in mind that the way homeopathic solutions are diluted is not in a giant bucket, It's by 1C at a time. 1 drop of active ingredient in 99 of water (1C), then 1 of that in 99 of water (2C), etc. They just do it a thousand times.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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15-04-2011, 06:06 PM
RE: Has anybody tried to get someone to stop taking Homeopathy?
And thats just nonsense. It means that if all the atoms in the universe get their turn in this bucket, they all have to go in the bucket 10^1920 times to make a 1000C remedy.

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30-05-2013, 10:57 AM
RE: Has anybody tried to get someone to stop taking Homeopathy?
I have a positive view of homeopathy. I am an example of someone who turned to homeopathy when conventional medicine failed. I am a certified medical transcriptionist and was its champion until I personally was affected.

Not only did homeopathy save my life, homeopathic remedies have worked for me and my family for over 20 years.

Homeopathic Sulphur cured two cases of conventionally treated mange in a dog of my husband’s aunt and the dog of one of my friends.

Two family members with broken bones were facing surgery to repair. Homeopathic
Symphytum cured the breaks without surgery. Before and after x-rays and ultrasound.
documented the healing.

Apis mellifica prevented the swelling and allergic reaction to several wasp stings on my legs.

Silicea opened and helped drain a benign lipoma the size of a golf ball from our family dog’s right shoulder. No veterinary intervention required.

Rhus tox helped my husband avoid back surgery for two herniated discs at the L4-L5 level (also documented by x-ray and ultrasound.) He had been walking with a cane for six months.

I could go on and on citing successes with homeopathy. There is a plethora of books on homeopathy that document the curative effect of homeopathic medicine in the hands of a classical homeopath. One excellent book for the layman, by Anthony R. Dooley, M.D. is “Homeopathy, Beyond Flat Earth Medicine”.
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30-05-2013, 11:59 AM
RE: Has anybody tried to get someone to stop taking Homeopathy?
(30-05-2013 10:57 AM)sandra hermann courtney Wrote:  I am a certified medical transcriptionist and was its champion until I personally was affected.

A champion of transcription? Affected by obsolescence induced by voice recognition software? Yeah, that's tough. I can see why you turned to woo in times of tribulation...

What makes you think anyone cares? In case you missed it, this is an atheist forum. You're posting in the pseudoscience section, using anecdotal evidence. You ain't making your case, you're making ours.

Besides, you have no case. You have disaffectation and confirmation bias. You're thinking faith healing is about the healing, but it is just about the faith.

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30-05-2013, 12:28 PM
RE: Has anybody tried to get someone to stop taking Homeopathy?
Yeah, until I see actual evidence, I'm going to remain skeptical of this anecdotal "evidence" of plain water healing broken bones, getting rid of lipomas, fixing herniated discs. I also think it's irresponsible/abusive to give your dog plain water when it's sick, rather than actual medical care.
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