Has atheism become religion?
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11-07-2013, 05:10 PM
RE: Has atheism become religion?
I will not read all of this because it is nonsense.

A lack of belief in a male god is not a religion. It is rather that simple.

I will personally admit to a belief in mother earth and its holiness. This may be construed to be a religion. I do not believe in a supreme father. I was not that and I hate that idea.

I think most of the words above are a useless waste of space.
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11-07-2013, 09:25 PM
RE: Has atheism become religion?
(11-07-2013 05:10 PM)JAH Wrote:  I will not read all of this because it is nonsense.

A lack of belief in a male god is not a religion. It is rather that simple.

I will personally admit to a belief in mother earth and its holiness. This may be construed to be a religion. I do not believe in a supreme father. I was not that and I hate that idea.

I think most of the words above are a useless waste of space.
If it is not to personal to ask, in your honest view, keeping in mind that you believe Earth is female, how exactly do you perceive the difference between the male perspective and the female perspective so as to accept one but not the other?
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12-07-2013, 08:04 AM
RE: Has atheism become religion?
(07-07-2013 12:34 PM)Raven11 Wrote:  Considering the fact that many atheists are starting to act like this is a religion to them. From atheist churches, defending the lack of belief, insulting those who aren't atheists, all the way down to the atheist monument.
Has atheism become a religion, why or why not?

Are you saying "insulting the competition" is one of the prerequisites of being a religion. Is this an action you partake of in your religion??
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12-07-2013, 06:13 PM
RE: Has atheism become religion?
(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  We must have some kind of disconnect here. How is it that it does not follow that a definition of religion from a dictionary describing what I see as an atheist perspective is not a religion? I didn't write the definition. Perhaps I don't perceive what it means to be an atheist in your view.

You have been arguing that atheism is a religion. I have demonstrated why it is not. You have then been trying to cherry pick definitions. I have shown you why they still do not apply. What disconnect is there?

(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  Wow. We really do have a disconnect. That's the point I've been trying to make to you. That one should not conflate religion with God.

I literally said that in one of my first posts on this thread, asking you if theism necessitates religion. If you agree with what I said, then you hold a double standard in believing atheism is a religion.

(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  Okay I think I see the possible disconnect here. To be clear, I never assumed that the entirety of atheism is religious.

Really?

(08-07-2013 04:02 PM)childeye Wrote:  If one defines the term "religion" as a "man made perspective of God", then atheism is a religion in my view.

Oh, and I suppose your trying to argue that my provided citations agreed with your previous statement had nothing to do with attempting to define atheism as a religion?

(08-07-2013 05:44 PM)childeye Wrote:  Sorry, but I respectfully must disagree again. All of these dictionaries you provided do qualify my use of the term. Note: the Encyclopedia Britannica; in more humanistic or naturalistic forms of religion, they are expressed in terms of one’s relationship with or attitudes toward the broader human community or the natural world. This speaks to atheism quite well in my view.
Note: The Farflex dictionary; 4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Right.

(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  I don't understand why anyone would try to be ignorant unless they were ignorant of what it means to be ignorant.

Take remedial psychology and study religion objectively. Ever heard of the phrase, "Ignorance is bliss"?

(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  It's also a good thing to know when you're wrong so you can learn.

Irrelevance.

(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  Pardon my saying, but I was simply responding to your statement.


There was nothing to respond to.

(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  Indeed it is all that matters. I think it is better to create understanding than misunderstanding even as I believe there is one Truth that can live in all mankind.

I don't care about your "truth".

(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  But this is relevant to the discussion. If atheists hated religion and then became a religion, that would be hypocrisy. Consequently that would be being motivated by belief in a lie.

It is not relevant because that is not what we are debating.

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12-07-2013, 11:35 PM (This post was last modified: 13-07-2013 01:26 PM by childeye.)
RE: Has atheism become religion?
(12-07-2013 06:13 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  You have been arguing that atheism is a religion.
Yes. From what I understand about atheism.
Quote: and I have demonstrated why it is not.
Pardon my ignorance, but perhaps there is confusion because every time you say atheism I am thinking of atheism in my view of atheism and you are speaking about your view. Also, I differentiate a false god or gods from the real one.

Quote:You have then been trying to cherry pick definitions. I have shown you why they still do not apply. What disconnect is there?

As I recall, you supplied a list of many dictionaries with many variations of what religion means and all were not the same. You then claimed all the dictionaries disagreed with me. Yes, they did not say word for word what I had described. But some did describe what I would view as Atheism and called it a "form of religion". I pointed that out. You implied that I had misunderstood or misapplied those definitions. I'm not really sure why.

(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  Wow. We really do have a disconnect. That's the point I've been trying to make to you. That one should not conflate religion with God.

Quote:I literally said that in one of my first posts on this thread, asking you if theism necessitates religion. If you agree with what I said, then you hold a double standard in believing atheism is a religion.
Again, please forgive my ignorance, I don't recall you saying that to me. I must have missed that too. I don't personally feel that the simple belief there is a God necessitates religion as in requires or causes religion. That is to say that just because someone believed in God doesn't necessarily make that person religious. Religion to me is a man made construct of worship or devotion.
(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  Okay I think I see the possible disconnect here. To be clear, I never assumed that the entirety of atheism is religious.

Quote:Really?
Yes, really. I don't believe simply being honest and saying you don't believe there is a God is a religion anymore than simply being honest and saying you do believe there is. It's when you construct a devotion with a religious attitude that it becomes a religion.
(08-07-2013 04:02 PM)childeye Wrote:  If one defines the term "religion" as a "man made perspective of God", then atheism is a religion in my view.
Please note the caveat.

Quote:Oh, and I suppose your trying to argue that my provided citations agreed with your previous statement had nothing to do with attempting to define atheism as a religion?
Not sure what you mean here. I already said how atheism could be a religion. I simply pointed out the definitions that supported humanistic forms of religion which you called cherry picking. Here is what I said generally speaking about what is common in all religions, "All religions are perspectives and beliefs of what is Truth". All of the dictionaries qualified that. I strongly sense we are misunderstanding one another somewhere here.

(08-07-2013 05:44 PM)childeye Wrote:  Sorry, but I respectfully must disagree again. All of these dictionaries you provided do qualify my use of the term. Note: the Encyclopedia Britannica; in more humanistic or naturalistic forms of religion, they are expressed in terms of one’s relationship with or attitudes toward the broader human community or the natural world. This speaks to atheism quite well in my view.
Note: The Farflex dictionary; 4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Quote:Right.
Right what?????

(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  I don't understand why anyone would try to be ignorant unless they were ignorant of what it means to be ignorant.

Quote:Take remedial psychology and study religion objectively. Ever heard of the phrase, "Ignorance is bliss"?
Again, I don't get your point. Are you being sarcastic? Do they teach in remedial psychology that it is blissful to be ignorant? I do study religion objectively. How exactly could I study it subjectively?

(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  It's also a good thing to know when you're wrong so you can learn.

Quote:Irrelevance.
Okay, you're starting to scare me. Are you saying you don't care if you're wrong because your psychology course taught you that ignorance is bliss? I can't believe that. I really do think I am misunderstanding you.

(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  Pardon my saying, but I was simply responding to your statement.


Quote:There was nothing to respond to.


(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  Indeed it is all that matters. I think it is better to create understanding than misunderstanding even as I believe there is one Truth that can live in all mankind.

Quote:I don't care about your "truth".


(11-07-2013 04:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  But this is relevant to the discussion. If atheists hated religion and then became a religion, that would be hypocrisy. Consequently that would be being motivated by belief in a lie.

It is not relevant because that is not what we are debating.
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13-07-2013, 07:21 AM
RE: Has atheism become religion?
Childeye, you are confused, here are some of the most glaring from your most recent post. You seem to have a conclusion and you cherry pick, twist, squirm, bend, and alter, to try any back up your false conclusions about Atheism. The method you use to differentiate gods should reveal something to you. You are the one conflating. It has been shown how Atheism is not a religion.



Childeye,
"I differentiate a false god or gods from the real one.
That one should not conflate religion with God.
I never assumed that the entirety of atheism is religious.
If one defines the term "religion" as a "man made perspective of God"
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13-07-2013, 01:19 PM (This post was last modified: 13-07-2013 01:27 PM by childeye.)
RE: Has atheism become religion?
(13-07-2013 07:21 AM)Buddy Wrote:  Childeye, you are confused, here are some of the most glaring from your most recent post. You seem to have a conclusion and you cherry pick, twist, squirm, bend, and alter, to try any back up your false conclusions about Atheism. The method you use to differentiate gods should reveal something to you. You are the one conflating. It has been shown how Atheism is not a religion.

Thank you for your forthright response. I admit atheism is confusing to me. Allow me to explain. I originally thought that atheism was an unbelief in God. Atheists however don't define the term God the same as myself. Now I am more inclined to think atheism is a belief that reason or logic is preferred over blind trust (faith). That to me is a false dichotomy which is not logical to begin with. Certainly everyone must reason so as to decide in which way they will trust in any moral choice. It seems to me in any moral dilemma we all must reason which way would be right and which way would be wrong and in the end we decide where to put our trust. I don't think I have ever encountered a moral situation where a 100% blind trust was applicable. Christians, personifying Love as God, do the same thing when contemplating which way God is leading us, which way is true/false, right and wrong. I don't see the difference.

Quote:Childeye,
"I differentiate a false god or gods from the real one.
This means there can be only one God, the source of energy that created the universe.
Quote:That one should not conflate religion with God.
There are numerous religions and only one God. I conflate God with Creator, Life, Love. Religion to me is a man made concept.
Quote:I never assumed that the entirety of atheism is religious.
If someone simply doesn't believe in God that is understandable. It doesn't make honesty a religion (a man made concept). The problem is how does an atheist define god which they do not believe in. To an atheist I must assume that mankind is the most supreme being they believe in until proven otherwise. It's when atheists take the honest inability to believe and get together so as to attack others who honestly believe that there are higher powers at work in creation and in the destiny of mankind, that I feel they have become a religion.
Quote:If one defines the term "religion" as a "man made perspective of God"
I think I explained this above. Some atheists construct their own ideas or images of God, usually superstition, which they then don't believe in religiously. According to their definition of god, I logically am an atheist too since I don't trust in superstition. I must justify my belief in God with some substance. Christians call it the knowledge of God.
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13-07-2013, 01:36 PM
RE: Has atheism become religion?
(13-07-2013 01:19 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(13-07-2013 07:21 AM)Buddy Wrote:  Childeye, you are confused, here are some of the most glaring from your most recent post. You seem to have a conclusion and you cherry pick, twist, squirm, bend, and alter, to try any back up your false conclusions about Atheism. The method you use to differentiate gods should reveal something to you. You are the one conflating. It has been shown how Atheism is not a religion.

Thank you for your forthright response. I admit atheism is confusing to me. Allow me to explain. I originally thought that atheism was an unbelief in God. Atheists however don't define the term God the same as myself. Now I am more inclined to think atheism is a belief that reason or logic is preferred over blind trust (faith). That to me is a false dichotomy which is not logical to begin with. Certainly everyone must reason so as to decide in which way they will trust in any moral choice. It seems to me in any moral dilemma we all must reason which way would be right and which way would be wrong and in the end we decide where to put our trust. I don't think I have ever encountered a moral situation where a 100% blind trust was applicable. Christians, personifying Love as God, do the same thing when contemplating which way God is leading us, which way is true/false, right and wrong. I don't see the difference.

Quote:Childeye,
"I differentiate a false god or gods from the real one.
This means there can be only one God, the source of energy that created the universe.
Quote:That one should not conflate religion with God.
There are numerous religions and only one God. I conflate God with Creator, Life, Love. Religion to me is a man made concept.
Quote:I never assumed that the entirety of atheism is religious.
If someone simply doesn't believe in God that is understandable. It doesn't make honesty a religion (a man made concept). The problem is how does an atheist define god which they do not believe in. To an atheist I must assume that mankind is the most supreme being they believe in until proven otherwise. It's when atheists take the honest inability to believe and get together so as to attack others who honestly believe that there are higher powers at work in creation and in the destiny of mankind, that I feel they have become a religion.
Quote:If one defines the term "religion" as a "man made perspective of God"
I think I explained this above. Some atheists construct their own ideas or images of God, usually superstition, which they then don't believe in religiously. According to their definition of god, I logically am an atheist too since I don't trust in superstition. I must justify my belief in God with some substance. Christians call it the knowledge of God.

Atheism is simply not believing in any god.
The lack of belief in gods is often the result of critical thinking, which includes skepticism.
Critical thinking leads to an acceptance of the scientific method for discovering knowledge of the natural world. Science requires evidence.
This, in turn, reinforces skepticism and critical thinking.

You seem to be conflating atheism with these methodologies. There is correlation, but they are not the same.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-07-2013, 02:04 PM
RE: Has atheism become religion?
(13-07-2013 01:19 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(13-07-2013 07:21 AM)Buddy Wrote:  Childeye, you are confused, here are some of the most glaring from your most recent post. You seem to have a conclusion and you cherry pick, twist, squirm, bend, and alter, to try any back up your false conclusions about Atheism. The method you use to differentiate gods should reveal something to you. You are the one conflating. It has been shown how Atheism is not a religion.

Thank you for your forthright response. I admit atheism is confusing to me.
More problems:
Quote:There are numerous religions and only one God.
There have been many imaginary gods in history. Today there are millions, if not billions of imaginary gods. Every religious person has there own personal god that carries out duties to that particular person. All based on hearsay and a vivid imagination. Yours happens to be an energy source. There is a lot of conflation going on. An Atheist will describe god by your definition, as they only exist by your imagination and your description. Don't assume. Atheists simply deny any gods exist outside the human imagination. That is all. That is strictly based on reason. It is the same as stating goblins do not exist except in fiction.

Quote:I must justify my belief in God with some substance
Wake me when you find the substance.
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13-07-2013, 02:32 PM
RE: Has atheism become religion?
(12-07-2013 11:35 PM)childeye Wrote:  I differentiate a false god or gods from the real one.

Then tell us exactly what the objective criteria are which you have, and the steps you go through, in deciding whether a god is true or not.

Then tell us exactly what would or could falsify a god for you.

And stop moving the goal posts, as you constantly do. You are the only person on the face of the Earth that literally equates morality with your specific god.
You, and you alone say "Atheism is a fundamental contradiction based on the denial of a moral axiom called Love."

Who gave you the right to define what other people mean when they use language, both believers, and non-believers ?

Your dishonest arrogant linguistic gymnastics do not serve you.

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