Has democracy ever been synonymous with freedom?
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13-10-2012, 02:46 PM
Has democracy ever been synonymous with freedom?
I could just mention that Hitler was voted into power and that would end the debate right there....but that wouldn't be fun. Cool


Has democracy ever been synonymous with freedom? Our society has 3 sacred cows: Democracy-Capitalism-Religion. All 3 are total jokes now as viable belief systems but the least questioned in todays society is Democracy. We are told that democracy made everyones panties wet in ancient greece and that greek society was some Disney land. In reality, democracy from the very beginning was bullshit. The ancient greek society just like todays society meant impreialism and expansionist policies. The method of voting certainly hasn't meant that freedom was coming.

How would you guys judge the validity or success of democracy in it's application and goals?


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13-10-2012, 03:49 PM
RE: Has democracy ever been synonymous with freedom?
Hitler was the only candidate, so it's like saying the Chinese government (which has only one party) was voted democraticly. so here's goes that argument.

Not everyone's societies are the same. Here capitalism was never a sacred cow- Israel's main party until the 70's was socialist. Religion's "holy" status is declining.

Democracy has it fallacies, no one deny that. But it has the fewest fallacies. Esentially,if you need to go and pick between democracy and its 2 evil sisters- anarchy and dictatorship- you will always choose democracy. Why? because it has the ability to change, the other 2 will change only when they stop being anarchies or dictatorships, and start being another ruling system.
Got the picture?

And your closing sentence- it is so sad it is so true that there are actually people who prefer to live in fear, just because they don't know nothing else than that fear.
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13-10-2012, 03:56 PM
Has democracy ever been synonymous with freedom?
I'm sorry, I missed the form of government that you propose to replace a Republic, which is what the US is rather than a democracy.

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13-10-2012, 04:57 PM
RE: Has democracy ever been synonymous with freedom?
(13-10-2012 03:49 PM)shiranl Wrote:  Hitler was the only candidate, so it's like saying the Chinese government (which has only one party) was voted democraticly. so here's goes that argument.

Not everyone's societies are the same. Here capitalism was never a sacred cow- Israel's main party until the 70's was socialist. Religion's "holy" status is declining.

Democracy has it fallacies, no one deny that. But it has the fewest fallacies. Esentially,if you need to go and pick between democracy and its 2 evil sisters- anarchy and dictatorship- you will always choose democracy. Why? because it has the ability to change, the other 2 will change only when they stop being anarchies or dictatorships, and start being another ruling system.
Got the picture?

And your closing sentence- it is so sad it is so true that there are actually people who prefer to live in fear, just because they don't know nothing else than that fear.

Democracy can just as easily be a dictatorship as any other form of government, many so called democracies are just as likely to be fascistic in their foreign policy as any other political system.

Democracy hasn't stopped Israel from possessing nuclear weapons......., invading other nations, bombing other nations and threatening other nations any more than democracy has stopped any other democracy loving country. The biggest democracies are often the biggest human rights abusers.

My point is, a democracy is just another form of dictatorship, so is anarchism and for similar reasons. The idea that democracy makes a country automatically a better country to live in or to live by is not historically accurate.
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13-10-2012, 05:00 PM
RE: Has democracy ever been synonymous with freedom?
(13-10-2012 03:49 PM)shiranl Wrote:  Hitler was the only candidate, so it's like saying the Chinese government (which has only one party) was voted democraticly. so here's goes that argument.

Not everyone's societies are the same. Here capitalism was never a sacred cow- Israel's main party until the 70's was socialist. Religion's "holy" status is declining.

Democracy has it fallacies, no one deny that. But it has the fewest fallacies. Esentially,if you need to go and pick between democracy and its 2 evil sisters- anarchy and dictatorship- you will always choose democracy. Why? because it has the ability to change, the other 2 will change only when they stop being anarchies or dictatorships, and start being another ruling system.
Got the picture?

And your closing sentence- it is so sad it is so true that there are actually people who prefer to live in fear, just because they don't know nothing else than that fear.

Hitler was not the only candidate running for office when he was elected.

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13-10-2012, 05:17 PM
RE: Has democracy ever been synonymous with freedom?
Why do you insist on using Wikianswers and Yahooanswers? They are not reliable citations.

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13-10-2012, 05:34 PM
RE: Has democracy ever been synonymous with freedom?
(13-10-2012 05:17 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Why do you insist on using Wikianswers and Yahooanswers? They are not reliable citations.

Insist? when have i insisted on using those?
So you believe hitler was the only candidate?
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13-10-2012, 06:12 PM
RE: Has democracy ever been synonymous with freedom?
(13-10-2012 04:57 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(13-10-2012 03:49 PM)shiranl Wrote:  Hitler was the only candidate, so it's like saying the Chinese government (which has only one party) was voted democraticly. so here's goes that argument.

Not everyone's societies are the same. Here capitalism was never a sacred cow- Israel's main party until the 70's was socialist. Religion's "holy" status is declining.

Democracy has it fallacies, no one deny that. But it has the fewest fallacies. Esentially,if you need to go and pick between democracy and its 2 evil sisters- anarchy and dictatorship- you will always choose democracy. Why? because it has the ability to change, the other 2 will change only when they stop being anarchies or dictatorships, and start being another ruling system.
Got the picture?

And your closing sentence- it is so sad it is so true that there are actually people who prefer to live in fear, just because they don't know nothing else than that fear.

Democracy can just as easily be a dictatorship as any other form of government, many so called democracies are just as likely to be fascistic in their foreign policy as any other political system.

Democracy hasn't stopped Israel from possessing nuclear weapons......., invading other nations, bombing other nations and threatening other nations any more than democracy has stopped any other democracy loving country. The biggest democracies are often the biggest human rights abusers.

My point is, a democracy is just another form of dictatorship, so is anarchism and for similar reasons. The idea that democracy makes a country automatically a better country to live in or to live by is not historically accurate.

No, it can't. Because once it becomes a dictatorship-like, it stops to be a democracy, and start being another form of ruling system. Understood?

As much as I would love to pown you on your baseless statements regarding my country, this is not the issue, and I refuse to turn the subject to my country's situation because you can't protect for more then a split second your ridicuols position that democracy really is a form of dictatorship.

I disagree. The biggest dictatorships are usually the biggest human rights abusers.

No, it isn't. You know why? Because in a democracy, you can say you don't like the government and go own with your life as usual. In a dictatorship, you can definately say whatever you want, but the part of going own with your life as usual? well, not so much. I guess you never lived in an anarchy or a dictatorship, I hope for you that you won't ever have to experience one of those systems.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...e-to-power

read last paragraph.
You're right, he was running opposed. But he didn't won that elections, he got just a bit less then 37%, but afterwards he was supported by some powerful guys who forced the president,the one Hitler was running against and lost to, to give him the PM position.
Hitler wasn't elected AT ALL. thank you for making me investigate more and expend my knowledge.
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13-10-2012, 06:29 PM
RE: Has democracy ever been synonymous with freedom?
(13-10-2012 06:12 PM)shiranl Wrote:  
(13-10-2012 04:57 PM)I and I Wrote:  Democracy can just as easily be a dictatorship as any other form of government, many so called democracies are just as likely to be fascistic in their foreign policy as any other political system.

Democracy hasn't stopped Israel from possessing nuclear weapons......., invading other nations, bombing other nations and threatening other nations any more than democracy has stopped any other democracy loving country. The biggest democracies are often the biggest human rights abusers.

My point is, a democracy is just another form of dictatorship, so is anarchism and for similar reasons. The idea that democracy makes a country automatically a better country to live in or to live by is not historically accurate.

No, it can't. Because once it becomes a dictatorship-like, it stops to be a democracy, and start being another form of ruling system. Understood?

As much as I would love to pown you on your baseless statements regarding my country, this is not the issue, and I refuse to turn the subject to my country's situation because you can't protect for more then a split second your ridicuols position that democracy really is a form of dictatorship.

I disagree. The biggest dictatorships are usually the biggest human rights abusers.

No, it isn't. You know why? Because in a democracy, you can say you don't like the government and go own with your life as usual. In a dictatorship, you can definately say whatever you want, but the part of going own with your life as usual? well, not so much. I guess you never lived in an anarchy or a dictatorship, I hope for you that you won't ever have to experience one of those systems.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...e-to-power

read last paragraph.
You're right, he was running opposed. But he didn't won that elections, he got just a bit less then 37%, but afterwards he was supported by some powerful guys who forced the president,the one Hitler was running against and lost to, to give him the PM position.
Hitler wasn't elected AT ALL. thank you for making me investigate more and expend my knowledge.

So Democracy (electing people) can be just as corrupt.

I don't know which claims I made that you are referring to, I didn't make any claim about your country that isn't common knowledge.

Do you consider your country a democracy?

Say for example for shits and giggles, there was a country that has nuclear weapons but in order to not follow with known laws that most countries abide by, they simply deny that they have them even though everyone knows they do have them. Say in this country there was a guy, I will just pick a random name, Mordechai Vanunu who exposed his countries nuclear weapons plants and then was put in jail for 18 years (11 of them in solitary confinement) simply for saying that his country had nuclear weapons. This was just an example.....but do you think that country is a democracy?



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13-10-2012, 06:40 PM
RE: Has democracy ever been synonymous with freedom?
(13-10-2012 06:29 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(13-10-2012 06:12 PM)shiranl Wrote:  No, it can't. Because once it becomes a dictatorship-like, it stops to be a democracy, and start being another form of ruling system. Understood?

As much as I would love to pown you on your baseless statements regarding my country, this is not the issue, and I refuse to turn the subject to my country's situation because you can't protect for more then a split second your ridicuols position that democracy really is a form of dictatorship.

I disagree. The biggest dictatorships are usually the biggest human rights abusers.

No, it isn't. You know why? Because in a democracy, you can say you don't like the government and go own with your life as usual. In a dictatorship, you can definately say whatever you want, but the part of going own with your life as usual? well, not so much. I guess you never lived in an anarchy or a dictatorship, I hope for you that you won't ever have to experience one of those systems.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...e-to-power

read last paragraph.
You're right, he was running opposed. But he didn't won that elections, he got just a bit less then 37%, but afterwards he was supported by some powerful guys who forced the president,the one Hitler was running against and lost to, to give him the PM position.
Hitler wasn't elected AT ALL. thank you for making me investigate more and expend my knowledge.

So Democracy (electing people) can be just as corrupt.

I don't know which claims I made that you are referring to, I didn't make any claim about your country that isn't common knowledge.

Do you consider your country a democracy?

Say for example for shits and giggles, there was a country that has nuclear weapons but in order to not follow with known laws that most countries abide by, they simply deny that they have them even though everyone knows they do have them. Say in this country there was a guy, I will just pick a random name, Mordechai Vanunu who exposed his countries nuclear weapons plants and then was put in jail for 18 years (11 of them in solitary confinement) simply for saying that his country had nuclear weapons. This was just an example.....but do you think that country is a democracy?



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Democracy isn't equal to having an elections. In Iran they have elections, would you consider that country a democracy? no, because having an elections doesn't mean you're a democracy. Having an elections is just one tiny part of the whole system of democracy.

common knowledge doesn't mean fact. And as we all know, if something is common knowledge, doesn't necesserally mean it is true.

Yes, I consider my country a democracy. And again- I will not let you to turn this thread into backlashing over my country's situation because you can't stand behinde your opinions with valid facts.
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