Has god given us rational minds and free will not to use?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
27-02-2012, 10:45 AM
Has god given us rational minds and free will not to use?
This thread is for true believers to explain god's intentions.

Either he did not want us to use his gifts, or he is a sadistic old bastard who will torture us for eternity for using his gifts EXACTLY according to their nature.

Of course, I have been told before that god is beyond logic and human rules don't apply, but that is pure BS.

I am questioning god's motives, according to his logic and rules.

What are his rules?

What is his logic?

:roll:
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2012, 11:49 AM
RE: Has god given us rational minds and free will not to use?
(27-02-2012 10:45 AM)Zat Wrote:  This thread is for true believers to explain god's intentions.

Why? You begged the question below.

Quote:Either he did not want us to use his gifts, or he is a sadistic old bastard who will torture us for eternity for using his gifts EXACTLY according to their nature.

Quote:Of course, I have been told before that god is beyond logic and human rules don't apply, but that is pure BS.

Why? You've just created a false dilemma. That is a very legitimate answer. God isn't human; therefore, cannot be judged by human rules and logic. You don't judge a dog for eating its poop on human rules and logic, so then, why is an infinite being suddenly held to these standards?

Quote:I am questioning god's motives, according to his logic and rules.

This is an unanswerable line of questioning... just like trying to have a conversation with your dog about his poop brunch.

Quote:What are his rules?

They are His own; only for Him.

Quote:What is his logic?

They are His own; only for Him.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2012, 11:54 AM
RE: Has god given us rational minds and free will not to use?
There is no god.
The post assumes there is one and KC will lap that up like a cat to fresh milk and continue the preaching/discussion meme.
Let's move on to how we can get rid of this silly thinking once and for all.

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2012, 12:50 PM
RE: Has god given us rational minds and free will not to use?
(27-02-2012 11:49 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Why? You've just created a false dilemma. That is a very legitimate answer. God isn't human; therefore, cannot be judged by human rules and logic. You don't judge a dog for eating its poop on human rules and logic, so then, why is an infinite being suddenly held to these standards?

KC... I think it is legit. If we give you that God exists and has made these rules as they are... you really think there's no point *at all* in questioning them, even for our own edification, that we may better understand the so called glory of God? And... we don't question the dog's motives because we assume that it's *thicker* than us. If God is a million times brighter than us, surely we can expect him to act more wisely than a human? "I don't know, he's just wiser" seems to be a bit of weasel way out.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2012, 01:09 PM
RE: Has god given us rational minds and free will not to use?
(27-02-2012 12:50 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(27-02-2012 11:49 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Why? You've just created a false dilemma. That is a very legitimate answer. God isn't human; therefore, cannot be judged by human rules and logic. You don't judge a dog for eating its poop on human rules and logic, so then, why is an infinite being suddenly held to these standards?

KC... I think it is legit. If we give you that God exists and has made these rules as they are... you really think there's no point *at all* in questioning them, even for our own edification, that we may better understand the so called glory of God? And... we don't question the dog's motives because we assume that it's *thicker* than us. If God is a million times brighter than us, surely we can expect him to act more wisely than a human? "I don't know, he's just wiser" seems to be a bit of weasel way out.

It is a shoddy answer, I'll admit to that; but, the analogy is viable. There is a halo of logic and rules that we can only understand. Whether it's above us or under us doesn't matter. We are all still subjugated to it. We can only understand things as far as our humanity will allow us.

Let's take the dog example again... except, let's look at it from the dog's point of view.

A dog sees his master eating chocolate... and enjoying it. Yet, his master refuses to give his dog any, and in fact, will swat and discipline the dog if it tries to eat any chocolate. If any chocolate is dropped, it is hastily picked up and disposed.

Is this fair or logical in a dog's point of view? It's food to him. Tasty food. And his god won't give him any and will eat it right there in front of him.

Now, what barriers have to be crossed to tell the dog the logic behind the master's decision?

1) Language - being able to hold a conversation with the dog in the master's language. Why the master's language? The dog's language is too primitive to articulate any points.
2) Understanding - even if by a miracle the dog could hold a conversation with his master, the dog would have to be able to cognitively understand the biological processes that make chocolate poisonous to canines
3) Rights - if the dog was able to hold a conversation with the master and understand why the chocolate was harmful, is it the dog's right to eat it? After all, it's the master's... and he can choose how he wants to use it / eat it / give it away / throw it away.

The dog is at the complete mercy of the master... and it's the master's choice on whether or not to give him the chocolate; regardless if the dog understands or can even understand.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2012, 01:27 PM
RE: Has god given us rational minds and free will not to use?
"What are you going to do? Type at me?"

As if you are somehow impervious to reality.
Is that all you are willing to accept?
Apparently you reject logic, reason and sound science to keep your lofty "chosen" status and apparently enjoy rubbing that in here.
Quite frankly KC, you make me sick.

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2012, 01:38 PM
RE: Has god given us rational minds and free will not to use?
There is no conflict, so long as you use your rational mind to identify correct belief, right conduct and your own best interest; then use your free will to choose to obey whichever king the god has chosen to enforce his rules on earth.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2012, 02:37 PM
RE: Has god given us rational minds and free will not to use?
(27-02-2012 01:09 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Now, what barriers have to be crossed to tell the dog the logic behind the master's decision?

1) Language - being able to hold a conversation with the dog in the master's language. Why the master's language? The dog's language is too primitive to articulate any points.
2) Understanding - even if by a miracle the dog could hold a conversation with his master, the dog would have to be able to cognitively understand the biological processes that make chocolate poisonous to canines
3) Rights - if the dog was able to hold a conversation with the master and understand why the chocolate was harmful, is it the dog's right to eat it? After all, it's the master's... and he can choose how he wants to use it / eat it / give it away / throw it away.

The dog is at the complete mercy of the master... and it's the master's choice on whether or not to give him the chocolate; regardless if the dog understands or can even understand.

But we are not the creators of dogs. If God created us, then why not create us with the ability to understand "why"? Surely if we could create dogs we'd give them reasoning skill to understand "why" and to speak our language, wouldn't we? That is, unless we wanted hapless dogs who take orders as servants- incapable of logical disagreement.

But since we do have both logic and language then we presumably have the ability to understand "why". Yet God withholds the "why" and simply demands obedience as though we were dogs, not logical and thinking man.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2012, 02:47 PM
RE: Has god given us rational minds and free will not to use?
(27-02-2012 02:37 PM)kineo Wrote:  But we are not the creators of dogs. If God created us, then why not create us with the ability to understand "why"? Surely if we could create dogs we'd give them reasoning skill to understand "why" and to speak our language, wouldn't we? That is, unless we wanted hapless dogs who take orders as servants- incapable of logical disagreement.

But since we do have both logic and language then we presumably have the ability to understand "why". Yet God withholds the "why" and simply demands obedience as though we were dogs, not logical and thinking man.

But then, of course, this becomes paradoxical. God created us imperfect because if He created us perfect He would be creating Himself.

Why He doesn't allow us to understand the "why" can't be answered. As with anything, if you ask "why" enough, you will run out of answers.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2012, 02:53 PM
RE: Has god given us rational minds and free will not to use?
"Why He doesn't allow us to understand the "why" can't be answered. As with anything, if you ask "why" enough, you will run out of answers."

Absolute NONSENSE!

If you ask why and use the Scientific Method to answer it, ALL things can be answered.

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: