Has there been progress in human history in the ‘absolute’ sense?
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25-11-2011, 11:31 AM
RE: Has there been progress in human history in the ‘absolute’ sense?
(25-11-2011 09:21 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(26-09-2011 08:40 AM)bemore Wrote:  Our progress is so fragile as well......if something happened that removed our technology and infrastructure and threw us back into the dark ages then we would be back to being "civilised" savages that have to overcome a sense of "morals" to survive. I wonder how many generations it would take in these new enviroments that would lose everything that we know/are today...or to radically change aspects of life we hold dear and take for granted...not many im guessing.

If you was to place one of these 1st or 2nd generation "savages" with one of our more prehistoric ancestors I wonder how they would compare???

I find such scenarios ridiculous. As if somehow, all our technology stopped working and the infrastructure suddenly collapsed.
Yah and then what? The zombies come of course?

Can we move back to reality?
Reality is in knowing how fragile this technological structure actually is; but hey, I'm on the pma trip today. Wink

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25-11-2011, 12:39 PM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2011 12:48 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Has there been progress in human history in the ‘absolute’ sense?
(25-11-2011 11:31 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(25-11-2011 09:21 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(26-09-2011 08:40 AM)bemore Wrote:  Our progress is so fragile as well......if something happened that removed our technology and infrastructure and threw us back into the dark ages then we would be back to being "civilised" savages that have to overcome a sense of "morals" to survive. I wonder how many generations it would take in these new enviroments that would lose everything that we know/are today...or to radically change aspects of life we hold dear and take for granted...not many im guessing.

If you was to place one of these 1st or 2nd generation "savages" with one of our more prehistoric ancestors I wonder how they would compare???

I find such scenarios ridiculous. As if somehow, all our technology stopped working and the infrastructure suddenly collapsed.
Yah and then what? The zombies come of course?

Can we move back to reality?
Reality is in knowing how fragile this technological structure actually is; but hey, I'm on the pma trip today. Wink

Really. So play out a scenario where it all stopped working, and everything turns to chaos and everyone is forced to become Amish.

No zombies either.


A solar flare is the only thing I can think of that might cause such a catastrophe.
And event hen you have to exaggerate the problem 10 fold to come to the standard doomsday scenario.


EDIT: Climate change might be a doomsday scenario, but it doesnt stop technology from working, and it doesnt happen instantly.
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25-11-2011, 01:01 PM
RE: Has there been progress in human history in the ‘absolute’ sense?
(25-11-2011 12:39 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(25-11-2011 11:31 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Reality is in knowing how fragile this technological structure actually is; but hey, I'm on the pma trip today. Wink

Really. So play out a scenario where it all stopped working, and everything turns to chaos and everyone is forced to become Amish.

No zombies either.


A solar flare is the only thing I can think of that might cause such a catastrophe.
And event hen you have to exaggerate the problem 10 fold to come to the standard doomsday scenario.


EDIT: Climate change might be a doomsday scenario, but it doesnt stop technology from working, and it doesnt happen instantly.

Where did this "instantly" come from? Are you looking for sci-fi? And I did say I was doing the positive mental attitude...





Here you go, there's seven of 'em; no woo, no conspiracy theory - Mad Max within fifty years. Like that?

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25-11-2011, 02:01 PM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2011 02:18 PM by defacto7.)
RE: Has there been progress in human history in the ‘absolute’ sense?
I think there is a question here that has not been approached with seriousness. We talk of a glass ceiling, an end point or a point of heliopause of humanity but what would be next in the evolutionary process? IF mankind can survive long enough to finish the acquisition of the the technology we have already begun to realize, there is the possibility of further evolution... or is it evolution?

I propose the idea that humanity as a biological entity could... could... cease to exist as a bio entity. I believe in the very long run there is a topping out of biology on this planet and the next step would be digital. Call it evolution, call it destruction, call it an advanced self manufacturing of the remnants of the mind of man, call it a coup d'état, call it cyborg (please don't that is not what I see in my crystal ball... no mixing of man and machine). The earth and all that in living on it will have an end. It is the way of the universe...

In the beginning of the first thing lies the secondary cause of all things with the germ of their inevitable annihilation. E.A.Poe

If it were possible for man to continue, if we don't destroy our technology or the earth does not do it for us... or we don't annihilate ourselves, this may be our evolutionary future. The remnants of the collective mind of man advancing at the speed of light and containing itself for the rest of the existence of time in this bubble of our universe or... maybe beyond that. Maybe we will be god.

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25-11-2011, 02:10 PM
 
RE: Has there been progress in human history in the ‘absolute’ sense?
(25-11-2011 02:01 PM)defacto7 Wrote:  I think there is a question here that has not been approached with seriousness. We talk of a glass ceiling, an end point or a point of heliopause of humanity but what would be next in the evolutionary process? IF mankind can survive long enough to finish the acquisition of the the technology we have already begun to realize, there is the possibility of further evolution... or is it evolution?

Very interesting ideas, defacto, that could (and should) be discussed, maybe even in its own thread?

I tried it once in the thread: What is the next step in evolution? but did not get very far.

Maybe it could be revived?
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25-11-2011, 02:26 PM
RE: Has there been progress in human history in the ‘absolute’ sense?
(25-11-2011 02:10 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(25-11-2011 02:01 PM)defacto7 Wrote:  I think there is a question here that has not been approached with seriousness. We talk of a glass ceiling, an end point or a point of heliopause of humanity but what would be next in the evolutionary process? IF mankind can survive long enough to finish the acquisition of the the technology we have already begun to realize, there is the possibility of further evolution... or is it evolution?

Very interesting ideas, defacto, that could (and should) be discussed, maybe even in its own thread?

I tried it once in the thread: What is the next step in evolution? but did not get very far.

Maybe it could be revived?

If you think it doesn't belong here, I'll give it a shot. I know it was a stretch but then... you're probably right.

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25-11-2011, 05:02 PM
RE: Has there been progress in human history in the ‘absolute’ sense?
(25-11-2011 12:39 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  A solar flare is the only thing I can think of that might cause such a catastrophe.
And event hen you have to exaggerate the problem 10 fold to come to the standard doomsday scenario.

I don't really have a horse in this race so I'm not bent out of shape if these examples don't mean anything to you. But I would also point you to a comet or asteroid strike. Ever wonder what time and natural selection would have done to the Dinosaurs without a comet and/or world wide volcanic activity 65 million years ago? If they had had the cognitive ability to think about their existence, would they have poo-pooed the idea of their society ever coming to an apocalyptic end? Can you imagine zombie dinosaurs? Now there's a movie! A catastrophe scenario that could set modern humans back doesn't have to include fantastical beings like zombies. I don't think humans would return to Stone Age technology, but there are very real possibilities of technology ending crises that are not woo woo:

Asteroid strikehttp://www.cnn.com/2011/11/08/opinion/ur...index.html
Two weeks ago an asteroid the size of an aircraft carrier passed between the earth and moon. Who can say how much closer it would be in a future orbit?

The end of natural resources:
We all know that crude oil will someday run out. How about Water? It's not unlimited, it seems.




Jihadists releasing an EMP:




Will these happen in my lifetime? While my doubt is high, I have no way of knowing. These are all within the realm of possibility (unlike your zombies). There are probably other things like Virulent outbreaks. Remember the Spanish Flu? That wasn't even a terrorist related event (or was it? Smile )

Also, because of Time and Natural Selection, I don't think we can speak with any certainty about glass ceilings or the human race not growing anymore. I'm reluctant to agree without evidence that humans in Alexander the Great's time were on the same level of health and longevity and innovation as we are today. But for the sake of argument, let's say they were. Now, I'm very new to the evolution game so I may be naive in this view, but if it took 250,000 years for the first Homo Sapiens to evolve into the humans we know today, then 2000 years between Alexander the Great and Erxomai the Mild is statistically insignificant. We will not know where the human race will end up. We cannot know. But history tells me we will continue to advance. When we have overpopulated our earth, Adaptation requires us to find solutions and I suspect we will become a space-faring race eventually. With the virtually boundless limits of the universe, there is virtually no limit to what Homo Sapiens could become.

Just stuff I'm mulling. I'm just as fine being proven wrong, but it's fun to think about.

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26-11-2011, 07:21 AM
RE: Has there been progress in human history in the ‘absolute’ sense?
Perhaps you are missing the trine?

There is a natural ecology.
There is a collective consciousness.
There is a virtuality of simulation.

And this last is a memescape of hyper-evolution; the extant emergence of the Cascade. Wink

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26-11-2011, 11:53 AM
RE: Has there been progress in human history in the ‘absolute’ sense?
(26-11-2011 07:21 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Perhaps you are missing the trine?

There is a natural ecology.
There is a collective consciousness.
There is a virtuality of simulation.

And this last is a memescape of hyper-evolution; the extant emergence of the Cascade. Wink

Believing in Trines is what got me in this mess to begin with.

I can go along with ecology and simulation, but give me some examples for a collective consciousness.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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26-11-2011, 03:37 PM
RE: Has there been progress in human history in the ‘absolute’ sense?
(26-11-2011 11:53 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  I can go along with ecology and simulation, but give me some examples for a collective consciousness.

How could I be Ezekiel without a collective consciousness, atheist? Big Grin

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