Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
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07-09-2011, 01:48 AM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
I am glad that it is great to live in USA, but it is that great to live there because of the things USA is doing to the other countries. Great example for it is the fuel price, people in USA have the cheapest fuel price (not counting Saudi Arabia and neighbors) because all the rest of the world has higher prices so they level the fuel consumption that comes from USA. There are a lot of things that USA is pushing on to other countries so that they can have better life in their state.

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07-09-2011, 02:07 AM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
(07-09-2011 01:48 AM)Filox Wrote:  I am glad that it is great to live in USA, but it is that great to live there because of the things USA is doing to the other countries. Great example for it is the fuel price, people in USA have the cheapest fuel price (not counting Saudi Arabia and neighbors) because all the rest of the world has higher prices so they level the fuel consumption that comes from USA. There are a lot of things that USA is pushing on to other countries so that they can have better life in their state.

The reason the US has the cheapest oil price is because the government subsidizes the oil, as in they buy it all up from the companies, and then sell it back to the gas station at a cheaper price so they can pass the savings on to us, however, it's becoming a problem due to the rising cost of oil the government is losing serious cash. Now the oil prices are rising with the rest of the world. I've always argued against this program, considering I think that with higher oil costs America will simply have to be more fuel efficient or use public transportation.

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07-09-2011, 10:54 AM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
(07-09-2011 01:48 AM)Filox Wrote:  I am glad that it is great to live in USA, but it is that great to live there because of the things USA is doing to the other countries. Great example for it is the fuel price, people in USA have the cheapest fuel price (not counting Saudi Arabia and neighbors) because all the rest of the world has higher prices so they level the fuel consumption that comes from USA. There are a lot of things that USA is pushing on to other countries so that they can have better life in their state.

So the US is trying to watch out for its economic interests. How odd. Confused

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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08-09-2011, 05:51 AM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
(06-09-2011 11:13 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  See, the problem is seeing it as a all or nothing. America is either perfect, or it sucks and should be hated. Actually there's another alternative, which is that America, with all its faults and problems, is still the best place in which I have ever lived, and has every right to be proud of itself. Saying we are going to hate America because it's not perfect is pretty silly wouldn't you think?

It seems that you try to misconstrue what we are saying. We (or at least I) are not saying there's nothing good in America or nothing good that comes from there, we have just pointed out some reasons why the US is not so liked in other parts of the world. I think it's great that you like living there and I know there's millions of other people who think it's the best place in the world to live, I have no problem with that, we are talking about how the might of America is viewed mostly among people who do not live there but still are affected by what America as a country does.

We have never said or even implied that anyone should hate America because it's not perfect. We are saying that we don't like the double standards, that it's very common that the US says one thing and does another or that their foreign policy negatively affects a lot of other countries. And yes, I know that politicians in a lot of other countries lie through their teeth as well but usually what other countries do does not have the same global impact.

I know that a lot of other countries are worse than the US in some areas, but normally these countries don't try to say that they are better.

In comment to your last statement, that the US is looking out for its own economic interests, that is quite common among most countries, what we have a problem with when it comes to e.g. the oil is that the way the US is looking after its interests is in an irresponsible way that affects the entire planet. It sometimes seems that the US acts as if they are the only country on the planet that matters and that they are entitled to do as they wish with any resources on the planet.

I would say however that I think we won't get much further on the topic of this thread and the more we keep talking here the more OT we'll get. I'm not out for an argument with you but at the same time I have a very hard time not replying whenever someone posts something that seems they haven't really understood what I've been trying to say Smile
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08-09-2011, 11:03 AM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
(08-09-2011 05:51 AM)MAD Wrote:  We have never said or even implied that anyone should hate America because it's not perfect. We are saying that we don't like the double standards, that it's very common that the US says one thing and does another or that their foreign policy negatively affects a lot of other countries. And yes, I know that politicians in a lot of other countries lie through their teeth as well but usually what other countries do does not have the same global impact.

I know that a lot of other countries are worse than the US in some areas, but normally these countries don't try to say that they are better.
What somebody (I can't be bothered going back to check who it was) complained about was that America feels oh so good about itself, when in fact they have problems X, Y, and Z. And since this is a thread about hating America, I assumed to that poster, that was a good reason to hate America. What I was trying to say was that a people can feel good about itself and its country even if it's not perfect, as long as it is, in fact, very good. As I said, I find American quality of life to be the best I have experienced in all the countries I have been to, therefore even if there are problems X, Y, and Z, I still feel Americans are justified in feeling good about their countries.

American foreign politics does have a big impact for the very simple reason that America has been an economic, military, and political powerhouse. The Republic of San Marino tries to look out for its interests as much as America, but while the US has 300 million people, San Marino has 30,000, so no wonder it has a much smaller impact. Pissing off San Marino is probably a bit different than pissing off the US you know? Wink

Quote:In comment to your last statement, that the US is looking out for its own economic interests, that is quite common among most countries, what we have a problem with when it comes to e.g. the oil is that the way the US is looking after its interests is in an irresponsible way that affects the entire planet. It sometimes seems that the US acts as if they are the only country on the planet that matters and that they are entitled to do as they wish with any resources on the planet.
Again, I don't see why that surprises you. I would expect my government to put its country and its people's interests well above those of every other country. Why would I want my taxes to go to the interests of other countries? They can look after their own interests, thank you very much! Now, again, San Marino being 24 square miles, its interests are to keep everybody around it happy because that country would collapse and die without everybody else. They are too small to be even remotely self sufficient, they don't have any weight to throw around, so its best interest is served by keeping everybody else happy. America doesn't need to keep other countries happy because they depend on America a lot more than America depends on them. It's a tough pill to swallow for the other countries, I realize that, but it's also how the world works. Should Wal Mart care about the interests of the little mom-and-pop store? Why should it? And besides do you really think that if Germany or Great Britain were as big and powerful as the US, they would be all cuddly and nice? Let me remind you there was a time these countries were big and powerful, and I don't need to remind you how they acted.

Quote:I would say however that I think we won't get much further on the topic of this thread and the more we keep talking here the more OT we'll get. I'm not out for an argument with you but at the same time I have a very hard time not replying whenever someone posts something that seems they haven't really understood what I've been trying to say Smile
Why would you say that understanding why others hate America is OT?

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08-09-2011, 05:40 PM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
Watching Barrack Obama's presidential address to congress

Republicans refuse to clap for the most of what Barrack Obama says... but when he says:

We will always remain, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all!

And he gets a standing ovation from the entire floor on congress.. I didn't know we always were one nation under god indivisible... I thought we've only been that since 1954 Undecided
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08-09-2011, 05:59 PM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
(08-09-2011 05:51 AM)MAD Wrote:  I'm not out for an argument with you but at the same time I have a very hard time not replying whenever someone posts something that seems they haven't really understood what I've been trying to say Smile
Sorry, I forgot to add that I am not in for any argument, I am here to exchange ideas. Sometimes I may disagree with some posters, I don't see that as a problem, if we all agreed all the time, the world would be so boring! Besides I can learn more from somebody who disagrees with me than from somebody who agrees, because sometimes the person who disagrees brings up points I didn't think, or sees things from a point of view I didn't consider. So please understand that I appreciate to discuss with people with different ideas, and I am not here to pick fights.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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09-09-2011, 06:38 AM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
(08-09-2011 11:03 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  What somebody (I can't be bothered going back to check who it was) complained about was that America feels oh so good about itself, when in fact they have problems X, Y, and Z. And since this is a thread about hating America, I assumed to that poster, that was a good reason to hate America. What I was trying to say was that a people can feel good about itself and its country even if it's not perfect, as long as it is, in fact, very good. As I said, I find American quality of life to be the best I have experienced in all the countries I have been to, therefore even if there are problems X, Y, and Z, I still feel Americans are justified in feeling good about their countries.

Ok, I agree to this. I think what we were trying to say was that it's quite usual to hear from America that we are the best in the world at X, Y and Z when in fact they're not. That's what has been bothering me at least. I have no problem with Americans being happy with their country, I'd even say that's quite good (as long as it doesn't result in too much nationalism) Smile


Quote:American foreign politics does have a big impact for the very simple reason that America has been an economic, military, and political powerhouse. The Republic of San Marino tries to look out for its interests as much as America, but while the US has 300 million people, San Marino has 30,000, so no wonder it has a much smaller impact. Pissing off San Marino is probably a bit different than pissing off the US you know? Wink

Again, I don't see why that surprises you. I would expect my government to put its country and its people's interests well above those of every other country. Why would I want my taxes to go to the interests of other countries? They can look after their own interests, thank you very much! Now, again, San Marino being 24 square miles, its interests are to keep everybody around it happy because that country would collapse and die without everybody else. They are too small to be even remotely self sufficient, they don't have any weight to throw around, so its best interest is served by keeping everybody else happy. America doesn't need to keep other countries happy because they depend on America a lot more than America depends on them. It's a tough pill to swallow for the other countries, I realize that, but it's also how the world works. Should Wal Mart care about the interests of the little mom-and-pop store? Why should it? And besides do you really think that if Germany or Great Britain were as big and powerful as the US, they would be all cuddly and nice? Let me remind you there was a time these countries were big and powerful, and I don't need to remind you how they acted.

I'm not saying it surprises me, I just thing it's wrong. I expect my government to look after my needs without stepping on anyone outside of my country.

I guess this is the part where we disagree the most then. In my opinion no country has the right to take advantage of others just because they're stronger. I would be very upset (and am from time to time) when I hear my country is doing bad things in other parts of the world to try to get advantages for Sweden. I thing it's absolutely loathsome for the stronger countries to do this. How are we ever going to fix global crises like global warming if the strongest nations shows that they don't give a fuck, they just want to make themselves richer by using even more oil and letting their corporations pollute as much as they want?

No, I don't think that Wal Mart should have to care about small businesses (even though it might earn them quite a lot of good-will) but when they take advantage of their position and more or less use it to force other stores out of business by, probably legal but at least ethically questionable methods then I think it's wrong.

Also, the US often use rhetoric to make it sound like they do care about the planet and they do care about human rights and so on but they repeatedly show they they don't. Of course they can't be honest and tell the world e.g. why they invade other countries, but then they have to expect everyone to be pissed off about it.

I have no love for GB or Germany, I don't think they would have been much better if they were the strongest countries and I would have been just as critical of them if that had been the case. The way most of our western countries have treated the rest of the world with our colonies and how we have stripped them of their treasures and resources is absolutely despicable and it makes no difference to me who is doing these things, I wouldn't like them any less.

I don't care that this is how the world works, I still find it wrong Smile

And I do want part of my taxes to go to the benefit of other countries because I believe that if as many people on this planet as possible have a way to earn a living and to be happy then the world will be a better place for everyone. I think it's the responsibility of every country that has a good economy to use part of that in foreign aid to help other countries to get to the same level, especially since most of the western countries have gotten rich by plundering countries in other parts of the world.

Quote:Why would you say that understanding why others hate America is OT?

Sorry if I misinterpreted you, I just felt like you were arguing that the opinions I and other people had here were wrong rather than accepting that we could have these opinions Smile

Quote:Sorry, I forgot to add that I am not in for any argument, I am here to exchange ideas. Sometimes I may disagree with some posters, I don't see that as a problem, if we all agreed all the time, the world would be so boring! Besides I can learn more from somebody who disagrees with me than from somebody who agrees, because sometimes the person who disagrees brings up points I didn't think, or sees things from a point of view I didn't consider. So please understand that I appreciate to discuss with people with different ideas, and I am not here to pick fights.

Ok, here we're in total agreement :-)
As I said, sorry if I misinterpreted you but a lot of times it seemed like you ignored part or all of what I was saying which made me feel like you were trying to argue things instead of discussing them.

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09-09-2011, 10:56 AM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
(09-09-2011 06:38 AM)MAD Wrote:  I guess this is the part where we disagree the most then. In my opinion no country has the right to take advantage of others just because they're stronger. I would be very upset (and am from time to time) when I hear my country is doing bad things in other parts of the world to try to get advantages for Sweden. I thing it's absolutely loathsome for the stronger countries to do this. How are we ever going to fix global crises like global warming if the strongest nations shows that they don't give a fuck, they just want to make themselves richer by using even more oil and letting their corporations pollute as much as they want?
Of course, there's ethical boundaries that shouldn't (but routinely are) crossed and I assure you many Americans don't agree with them. In fact often enough it just blows up in our faces, see Saddam Hussein or the Talebans. Those are people the US helped into power and look at the results!

Quote:I have no love for GB or Germany, I don't think they would have been much better if they were the strongest countries and I would have been just as critical of them if that had been the case. The way most of our western countries have treated the rest of the world with our colonies and how we have stripped them of their treasures and resources is absolutely despicable and it makes no difference to me who is doing these things, I wouldn't like them any less.

I don't care that this is how the world works, I still find it wrong Smile
Of course! My point was that it's not very rational of, say, Great Britain to hate the US for its imperialism when they have been guilty of it for centuries, and while US so-called imperialism is mostly economic, British imperialism was actually annex those countries, enslave the local population, and suck it dry of all its resources. You know what they say, "doctor heal thyself". I am not saying any of those things is right, what I am saying is that it's irrational and not the least bit hypocritical of, say, the Brits to hate the US for something they did themselves and worse. By that token, they should hate themselves first, before they even bother hating the US.
Quote:And I do want part of my taxes to go to the benefit of other countries because I believe that if as many people on this planet as possible have a way to earn a living and to be happy then the world will be a better place for everyone. I think it's the responsibility of every country that has a good economy to use part of that in foreign aid to help other countries to get to the same level, especially since most of the western countries have gotten rich by plundering countries in other parts of the world.
I guess we disagree on this point, which is fine. Smile

Quote:Sorry if I misinterpreted you, I just felt like you were arguing that the opinions I and other people had here were wrong rather than accepting that we could have these opinions Smile
Not at all, I am trying to not only discuss why other countries hate America (which is pretty well known) but also how rational and justified that hate is. Is it just cheap rhetoric? In my opinion, often for what Western countries are concerned, it is. Of course if Iraqis hate America all I can say is "you are right!"

Quote:As I said, sorry if I misinterpreted you but a lot of times it seemed like you ignored part or all of what I was saying which made me feel like you were trying to argue things instead of discussing them.
No, I read everything people post. I agree with some of it, which is why I don't bother answering it, it seems a waste of time to write just to post a series of "yes", "I agree", and "you are right". Tongue

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10-09-2011, 02:53 AM (This post was last modified: 10-09-2011 03:25 AM by Filox.)
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
I have said my case and MAD has good explaining skills, so I will let him do the talking for me, since we agree on this subject.

Smile

Sy, I was the one to whom you were referring a few post up. And it is not that I hate America, far from it, I love and use a lot of stuff from USA, but I do mean that a country as strong as USA could do even better if those BSers from your government were a bit more concerned for USA citizens and the rest of the world instead of filling their pockets with money they will never be able to spend... But that is the case for all the governments in the world, you are just more exposed than the rest of the world, that is why you are the first on the "hit list"...

P.S.
Also I kinda like to make fun of everything, so it is not just the USA, whatever come in front of me, if it deserves me making fun of it, I do it.

Smile

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