Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
28-07-2011, 08:23 PM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
Quote:I also LOVE torchwood.

Have you seen any of Miracle Day yet? It's been airing here for the last few weeks, I think we've had four parts so far and it's been pretty good. Not quite up to Children of Earth standard yet but could easily get there over the next few episodes.

Kinda ties in well with the thread as it's a very Americanised version of Torchwood. Gotta say I like it so far though Smile.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-07-2011, 08:33 PM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
I haven't even seen Children of Earth yet, I should just download it and be done with it.

You bring up an interesting point, what is 'Americanization' because to be honest I see things as less American and more 'Westernization'

It's funny because Japanese don't usually hear Atlantic accents, so they usually think I am British. (Funny enough my family recently immigrated, my father is 1st generation American born) We have crackers at Christmas and a whole host of other things my American friends just don't get.

I once had this joke in a cracker-
'Why are elephants not small white and round- Because then they would be called aspirin'

I'm totally serious on that joke, I haven't the slightest idea of how it is funny. Huh

[Image: 1471821-futurama_bender_s_big_score_imag...er-1-1.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-07-2011, 08:47 PM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
Quote:I haven't even seen Children of Earth yet, I should just download it and be done with it.

You have GOT to see it. If your a Torchwood fan its a real must. Takes everything to a whole new level and almost makes the first two series look average.

Quote:You bring up an interesting point, what is 'Americanization' because to be honest I see things as less American and more 'Westernization'

I see Americanization as making things that bit too cheesy and unrealistic. It's hard to describe. A lot of the time I feel American shows/films can take things that bit too far, for example, if in a (hypothetical) film the good guy is facing two or three people and defeats them thats fine, whereas when the good guy is tied up on the floor unarmed, surrounded by 100 highly trained highly armed assassins yet still manages to break free and kill them all with nothing more than a toothpick while making wisecrack comments, that would be what I would consider too much Americanization.

Sorry if that makes little sense, I can hardly understand it myself.

What is 'Westernization', not having been to the East it's not a phrase I've heard, I'm guessing it could be similar to what I mean by Americanization but I'm completely guessing there.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-07-2011, 08:58 PM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
As someone else said before, there are some assholes in the USA, but no more than anywhere else.
Nationalism also doesn't help with foreign relations, I see someone from another country acting like a fool and I think "wow, you're making your country proud, good job! *golf clap*"... then again, when I see a Canadian acting like a fool I think "you should be ashamed of yourself."

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-07-2011, 03:43 AM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
Quote:
Quote:It also doesn't help that they harp on about freedom, democracy and justice when they only enter conflicts for their own benefit and usually to screw someone over in the process (I know all countries do this but America seem to be the ringleaders and seem to do it far more often).
One thing that, as a European, was the hardest for me to understand was that the average American actually, sincerely believes in democracy and in the duty of America to bring democracy to oppressive countries. I know Europeans can be very cynical and it's easy to say "oh they are just saying that..." No, many actually believe it! Of course it's entirely misguided, and politicians don't necessarily believe it themselves.
This is kind of the point I was going for before, if the average citizen actually believes that the US is in these countries with the main priority of bringing democracy (with bombs) then it seems that they are very ill informed.

I think the reason the US gets crap when they do something as well as when they don't is because it's quite obvious that the reasons they invade other countries are purely for their own gain and has nothing to do with spreading democracy. I think that if the US had tried to do something about some of the other countries (North Korea, Burma, Saudi Arabia, Syria) that are horrible dictatorships as well as some of the countries where there's a lot to gain then the rest of the world might have seen things slightly different. The rhetoric of giving freedom and democracy but only in some select places gives a feeling of hypocrisy and double standards.

After 9/11 the world was sympathetic towards the US, a lot of countries gave support to the invasion of Afghanistan and even though it would have made more sense to go after Saudi Arabia, we thought that since there was information bin Laden (who had been trained and equipped by CIA) was there, ok for this time. Then for some reason Bush decided to go after Saddam (who had been supported and given chemical weapons by the US), there where massive demonstrations against this all over the world, no real evidence or reason was given but still there was an invasion. I think it was at this point that a lot of people started to get very upset with the US (and with England and the rest of the coalition).

Personally I don't believe that it is possible to come as an outsider and bomb people into submission and then instate democracy, I think democracy have to be something the people want first and then maybe it might help with an external force. I have absolutely no love for the Taliban (who were also equipped and trained by the US) and I sincerely hope things will get better in Afghanistan, but I doubt there will be that much difference after the troops withdraw and the different clans that have been equipped by the US gets the power of the area...

Another thing about bringing democracy, I doubt that for example the Arab world views our democracy as something good. It seems to be that wherever we try to promote democracy (now I'm talking about the western world and not only the US) it has to be done our way. Take Palestine for example, the west told them that you have to have elections if we're ever going to accept you as a country. They did have elections that were actually fairly free but they chose the wrong party. Of course all other countries said that since you chose a terrorist organization we don't accept it. Have another election or else...
Of course I don't condone the violent part of Hamas or the terror they are spreading, but we did allow for example the IRA in Ireland to keep their political wing, Sinn Fein, to be part of the elections.
I am just trying to say that it might not be so strange that a lot of countries seem very opposed to having the western style of democracy imposed upon them.

Quote:Other countries have terrible public figures too. Italy has Berlusconi, France has Sarkozy and Strauss-Kahn, Great Britain has the monarchy, the Vatican has the pedophile priests, etc etc.

I'd say that none of these have started illegal wars across the world and been so arrogant about it Smile
Yes, in Sweden Berlusconi is mostly seen as a slightly perverted media mogul and as a politician he's mostly a joke (albeit a dangerous one). Our state TV even had clip they were showing from time to time showing Berlusconi and with the text that Sweden has free news and TV (meaning of course not controlled by politicians or companies).
Sarkozy we don't hear that much about nowadays, he's less of a joke and seems slightly more intelligent and scary but he's not seen as someone who wields as much power as Bush did.
The Vatican we don't hear much from at all, sometimes there's a scandal but since the Vatican is mostly about religion we don't have that much of an interest in it Smile and the scandals about paedophiles wasn't contained to the Vatican, it was all over the world unfortunately...

I can't help ranting a bit more about the movie industry as well, someone brought up one of my pet peeves before, dubbing. Here in Sweden, the only thing that gets dubbed are movies and TV for small children. If a show is aimed at kids from around 10 and above we expect them to be able to read Wink

I have had a lot of discussions with Americans (and German and Spanish etc.) who simply refuse to watch a movie if it is subtitled. I guess it has to do with what you're used to, but it just feels so strange to totally disregard anything that isn't made in you native language. Personally I loathe watching something dubbed since it removes part of the acting and part of the overall feeling of the film.

The example used above on the lone hero killing all the bad guys... I'd say that sounds more like an Asian film to me Big Grin But of course then the hero would die in a tragic way afterwards as well... or maybe the hero and his entire family and all his friends would die...

There, another long comment about how bad the Americans are... I guess you see that I'm mostly aiming this at politicians and I guess there's not a great deal of difference between politicians in different countries, what makes the US the target is that it's so powerful that it actually has a great impact on the rest of the world.

Actually there's one more difference when we're talking about politicians. If I look at the US I would say that I'm envious about the political grass roots you have there, I wish so many people got that involved in local issues here in Sweden. When I look at the larger scale though I see two parties (that are far right in their views) that use more time and energy trying to slander the others than trying to show what good they can do themselves. I also see the enormous amount of money and time spent on campaigning rather then doing important stuff. I also see the influence by major corporations and lobby-groups which is scary. Of course we have some of these problems here as well but at a much smaller scale.

Now I guess I should do some work for a while.

Take care!

Martin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-07-2011, 05:58 AM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
I think you've touch on a very good point there MAD, the US (and other leading Western countries) are very keen to bring democracy to developing countries for two reasons;

1) The whole 'we're spreading justice' thing is a good vote winner
2) Democracy is far easier to externally control than a dictatorship

I think that the US (and UK) like democracy as they can use it to secure favourable trading terms and other perks. If a developing country's a dictatorship and refuses to allow us to pillage their natural resources then we are missing out on huge amounts of profits and can't do anything about it. If the country's a democracy then we can just wait until they next have an election and promise the opposition huge amounts of funding in exchange for their co-operation on any matters that should arise if they win (such as trade deals). Because the country is developing and poor the various parties can't afford much in the way of funds for an election campaign, except for the western backed party so they have a huge advantage. If the western backed party still manages to lose then the western country backing them claims that the winner either rigged the vote or is abusing power. They either fund a coup that instates their chosen party or even go in there themselves under the guise of 'defending freedom'. This leaves the western country free to trade on favourable terms (by which I mean pillage the countries natural resources) and it's a vote winner back home as the general population see the Government as having delivered justice.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-07-2011, 06:04 AM (This post was last modified: 29-07-2011 06:16 AM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
The best dubbing is Spanish dubbing, especially when it's done in Mexico. The dub has absolutely nothing to do with the series. Try power puff girls Z, which was a rather good Japanese reinvention of an American idea. I watch everything in it's original version, because it's less confusing than being re-edited. Never been a fan of dubbing, subtitles do it for me, and I like when a sub has notes on all the cultural stuff.

And "bringing democracy" is just the new excuse. It used to be "civilizing" people. The western world thrives due to controlling others who do not gain the serious benefits. it always has. Yes democracy is a slightly better idea than the old help a coup and create a helpful dictator plan, but one way or another the other country isn't going to like it.

You guys also mentioned the thing I hate the most. Carpet bombing, a disgusting waste that just uses up money, damages the land, and ruins the country they went to "save".

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-07-2011, 10:23 AM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
Just a comment about people who keep saying the US trained the taliban...

They were being systematically killed by Russians during the end of the cold war. They begged for help and we gave it to them, yet after the Ruskies left, we left as well.

So it's not like we simply trained them for the hell of it, to believe that is absolutely infantile.

You should watch Charlie Wilson's war, it's actually quite entertaining and gives a good idea about the political situation during the time.

[Image: 1471821-futurama_bender_s_big_score_imag...er-1-1.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-07-2011, 01:22 PM (This post was last modified: 30-07-2011 05:54 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
What's really, really scary about the US is the amount of brain-bending done by big money - in advertising, lobbying, popular culture, media, election campaigns, education - everywhere!
Hardly any public communications and zero possibility of balancing the message. Zero possibility of open debate or intelligent exposition of facts - whether political, economic, social or scientific - to the general public, because all outlets are controlled by the same interests.

Like, when it's announced on the news that So-and-So spent four million dollars of hir own money on an election campaign, nobody asks: "How did s/he come by all that money?" or "How qualified is somebody that rich to represent the unemployed assembly-line workers in hir riding?"

Like, when we hear that everybody in the world wants to emigrate to the US, nobody asks, "Who messed up the country they're living in now?" or "Where did their resources go?" or "Who is propping up their sadistic dictator?"

Far too many questions are never asked, and far too many subjects are taboo. People are never going to be wiser if they get propaganda instead of information.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-08-2011, 06:35 AM
RE: Hate America- It's the hip and trendy thing to do.
OK, I will just jump from first post to the last and answer the original question without reading 4 pages of other answers, couse I don't have the time right now.

Why does everybody hate USA? It's not like everybody picked up USA as a state by choice or purpose, but you are the most popular state in the world, you control most of other counties and their politics, you control the worlds oil, industries, money, everything evolves around Dollar bills, you are the biggest nuclear force (not, China is), you are the biggest military in the world (China again), you are involved in all the wars around the globe, you start most of the wars... When I say you, I mean USA, your government, don't get me wrong. So the reason you are on top of everyones tongue is because you are first and biggest in every event that happens around the world. Why do you think nobody makes fun of Kazakhstan, except Borat? Because nobody knows they exist. If some other country becomes more popular than USA, they will take primate in making fun of... So you don't need to feel sorry or angry about that fact, it is, on one hand, a good thing, because it shows how great and popular nation you are. You do have a lot of problems and some of those jokes you see can actually show you your errors... I would like for all the world to make fun of Croatia, but so that we are as powerful as USA, then let them make fun of whatever they like...

[Image: a6505fe8.jpg]
I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.
-Hunter S. Thompson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Filox's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: