Hate crime - torture - against white disabled teen
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06-01-2017, 05:29 PM
RE: Hate crime - torture - against white disabled teen
Oh, by the way, that Aamer Rahman comedy bit is HILARIOUS. Brilliant. Thanks for showing it to me. Smile

(Linked here for others to enjoy without going through the website.)




"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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06-01-2017, 05:33 PM (This post was last modified: 06-01-2017 05:38 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Hate crime - torture - against white disabled teen
And Vosur, you're a fucknut. I can't -2 rate you, yet, but I will as soon as I can. Fear not.

[Edit to Add: To explain for the rest of you, he -2 repped me because I'm "A textbook example of the obnoxiously arrogant and condescending liberal". I have no truck for people who would rate a person negative because of ideological disagreements, especially when I have done nothing but try to explain the problem of bias in how the narrative is spun about race in conservative circles. That's just a straight-up douchebag move.]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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06-01-2017, 07:28 PM
RE: Hate crime - torture - against white disabled teen
(05-01-2017 09:56 AM)epronovost Wrote:  I wonder if some outlet will prefer to deal with this story from the angle of handicapped people being martyrised. People with handicap, especially mental handicap, are much more likely to suffer from violence than able bodied persons (1.5 more likely for physical handicap and 4 times more likely for mental handicap). Because of their disabilities, they are easier to dehumanise and most of the time defenceless. I don't think that the choice of victim of that hate mob or gang (can a grop of four be qualified of mob?) was innocent. I would bet they were aware that the man they were assaulting was handicapped even if they didn't knew him. I hope those responsible for this attack will be dealt with and that those who witness the attack and encouraged the mob should also face some charge should they be able to identify them. Black civil rights leaders should also focus some effort into denouncing hate and violence toward white people and reinstate their desire to see their civil rights movement carry the fight against racism and poverty in their community through none-violent means.

On another note, traditionnaly, when a lashback against a racialized community happens, we usually prop up those types of crimes. I do believe that most African-American are just as shocked and disgusted than anybody else and would not wish an innocent man to suffer. Incidence of racial crimes against white happen from time to time. When the political climate is particularly toxic, such as after the election of a populist nationalist POTUS, those crimes are proped up to serve a, frequently, xenophobic narrative. In American history though, crimes against women were favored. The classical gang rape of a white women by a group of black gangster is a classic in terms of racial crime that was instrumentalised to create a backlash against said community. I wonder if white idiots and gangster will fall for that trick and take revenge against black for this attack by doing something very similar.

I think we should focus on treating people as individuals and not reinforce the highly corrosive race-culture narrative.

I'm a human being. I'm white, but that doesn't relate me to other white people in any special sense. That's dumb. This is a characteristic I was born with by dint of circumstance. Just so with black people.

I think, with Americans, for instance, this sort of thinking is so entrenched in the popular culture that they fail to see it's irrational dimensions.

Act in the world as if it's the kind you'd like to live in. I don't think that's bad advice, in some circumstances.
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06-01-2017, 10:16 PM
RE: Hate crime - torture - against white disabled teen
(06-01-2017 05:33 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  And Vosur, you're a fucknut. I can't -2 rate you, yet, but I will as soon as I can. Fear not.

[Edit to Add: To explain for the rest of you, he -2 repped me because I'm "A textbook example of the obnoxiously arrogant and condescending liberal". I have no truck for people who would rate a person negative because of ideological disagreements, especially when I have done nothing but try to explain the problem of bias in how the narrative is spun about race in conservative circles. That's just a straight-up douchebag move.]

What does that have to do with the topic? Go take your group drama elsewhere, you slackjawed ugly fuck.
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06-01-2017, 10:50 PM
RE: Hate crime - torture - against white disabled teen
Suspects denied bail:

link

Quote:CHICAGO (AP) — A judge rebuked four black people accused of beating a mentally disabled white man and broadcasting the attack on Facebook, sternly asking, "Where was your sense of decency?" before denying their attorneys' pleas to set bail so they might be released from jail.

"I find each of you a danger to yourself and society," Cook County Circuit Judge Maria Kuriakos Ciesil said, sounding baffled that the suspects who hold jobs, attend school and, in one case, care for a brother in a wheelchair could be charged with attacking the 18-year-old victim. How, she wondered, could she agree to allow people accused of such "terrible actions" to walk out of jail?

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06-01-2017, 11:51 PM (This post was last modified: 06-01-2017 11:58 PM by epronovost.)
RE: Hate crime - torture - against white disabled teen
(06-01-2017 07:28 PM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  I think we should focus on treating people as individuals and not reinforce the highly corrosive race-culture narrative.

I'm a human being. I'm white, but that doesn't relate me to other white people in any special sense. That's dumb. This is a characteristic I was born with by dint of circumstance. Just so with black people.

I think, with Americans, for instance, this sort of thinking is so entrenched in the popular culture that they fail to see it's irrational dimensions.

Act in the world as if it's the kind you'd like to live in. I don't think that's bad advice, in some circumstances.

Treating people exclusively as individual is a pious vow in my opinion. On paper it sounds great, fair, simpler and gentler. Yet, group identification is a fundamental part of how human being socialise. We are, by nature, tribal. We base our tribal identity in multiple layers of more or less rigid characteristic from our sex, apperance, language to our likes and dislike in terms of entertainment. Prejudices are almost impossible to elliminate for we don't know most of the people we interract with. We base our judgement of people we don't know on their perceived group identity, personnal experience with people of that said group or, failling that, what we heard about people of that group and proceed from than on. We don't even want to know most of the people we meet, we just want to carry on with our day and that's it.

In fact, right now, I am interracting with you and I'm assuming you are an Amercian agnostic atheist in his late twenties or early thirties, white and male. I assume you are moderatly liberal. You support gay rights, abortion rights, you have no opposition to public healthcare and education provided it's of good quality. You don't stand for blatant display of racism and sexism, but don't like to be bothered by activists who aggresively defend a cause. You have some colledge background, though you might not have completed it. You also aren't a fan of partisan politic. I might be wrong and I have no rational basis on which to base this opinion of you. I am assuming this so that when I write something to you it's more convenient. It allows me to have some sort of connection to you. It makes me care about what you write and what you think; and also makes me care about you might think of me. You don't need even half of those characteristics to have my full attention, interest and, I hope, kindness, but still I impose them on you as to imagine a bit how you look like on your side of the computer screen.If you were dressed as a sandwich man, smelling sweat, with a bible in your hand, with a flag pole that says that women's indecent dressing causes earthquake, I would go out of my way to ignore you completely and procede to ignore up to your very existence even if despite all this, once in while, such person could say something interesting or genuinly funny. I wont be there to hear, neither do I think most people would. Is my discrimination a form of bigotry? In certain sense, yes it is. It's not as unfair as to ignore a person based on his, more wide, religious indentity or his nationality, but I still discriminate on people based on some of their perceived group-identity and I think that most of the people who would deny having such practice are liars or are fooling themselves. I am working on my own bigotry by trying to remain mindful of it and capable of thinking complexly about such subject like discrimination, group identity and society.

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07-01-2017, 08:26 AM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 08:42 AM by GenesisNemesis.)
RE: Hate crime - torture - against white disabled teen
(06-01-2017 05:33 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  And Vosur, you're a fucknut. I can't -2 rate you, yet, but I will as soon as I can. Fear not.

[Edit to Add: To explain for the rest of you, he -2 repped me because I'm "A textbook example of the obnoxiously arrogant and condescending liberal". I have no truck for people who would rate a person negative because of ideological disagreements, especially when I have done nothing but try to explain the problem of bias in how the narrative is spun about race in conservative circles. That's just a straight-up douchebag move.]

We just elected someone who doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't know jack shit about anything except business. He also believes in conspiracy theories, such as "millions of people voted illegally" and doesn't believe Obama was born in the U.S. The man is a complete embarrassment to the country, and deserves ridicule (especially for being a man baby), but oh look, liberals are "smug and condescending". Liberals have also been told they're "unpatriotic" or "evil" simply for being liberal, for decades. So, cry me a fucking river.

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07-01-2017, 08:46 AM
RE: Hate crime - torture - against white disabled teen
(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  No. I already explained where the ideas come from: data. How people misuse that data is not the fault of the people generating and analyzing the data.

I'll explain more about that in a minute.

It is what happens when you spread myths as truth.

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Yeah. Don Lemon is a dipshit doing an opinion piece on Facebook. So? I thought we were talking about news.

[Edit to Add: By the way, that link is broken.]

Yeah sorry 'bout that

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  You know damned well that the GOP is known for doing a single-voice "talking points" narrative, where every one of them says the same thing in the same words. Jon Stewart was known for mocking them when they did it, by playing a dozen clips of them all using the same phrase in the same conversation-- almost literally every night on The Daily Show.

So you get your view of the GOP from a late night host? A late night host that is also liberal? That would be like me hearing ben shapiro and getting my view of democrats from him. This is why you should listen to both sides, makes it easier to separate them.

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  This has nothing to do with sociology.

So you have seen people learn the you can't be racist towards whites(you even posted a video about it) so where the hell does it come from? Zoology, physics, chemistry, engineering? No sociology. No other field spouts bullshit like sociology does.

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Yes, there are "partisan hacks" (as Kyle on Secular Talk calls such folks) who promote a particular narrative in which the "poor oppressed black people" (or whatever) can do no wrong, just as there are people who apologize for Islam no matter how many heads are being chopped off--- but that is not what the majority of intellectuals in the field do, by a long, long shot.

So do you guys disown or refute these guys? If ya do credit were credit it do, and those who don't, as they say silence is consent.

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  It's why, in the example I provided, you see Klan-brainwashed white kids choosing a guy alone in a parking lot and taking him down literally 10-on-1, then running him over with a truck.

1st: Don't see why you responded to this point, just said him being disabled was the exact reason, not that it wasn't a reason.

2nd: Yeah the kids who attacked the black kid was stupid.


(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  White privilege is about the number of subtle ways in which whites have an advantage in society, given otherwise equal backgrounds/situations.

You know quick question? Before I go on, do you think it might be possible that the people who seem to be privileged happen to be white? I never seen anyone just realize there is only one type of privilege. Also what about black people who benefit from the same things these white people do? I have seen plenty of black people who benefit from what white folks benefit from, and I have seen people who are white that get none of the privileges from white privilege.

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Money is only a small part of that, usually expressed in terms of inherited wealth and/or openly racist government programs from the first half of the 20th century that favored building a white middle class (home loans)

But isn't income a factor? And if asians make more on average than whites wouldn't that give them a slight advantage? When ever they compare home loans of whites and claim white privilage it is usually applied to white vs black. And it isn't like black people are made to be poor, but that black people happen to live in poorer areas. Which is funny you said money is only a small factor, when it is a big factor when it comes to this.



(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  GI Bill

I get what you are saying with this. Back in the day there were disadvantages, however some black people did get to use the G.I bill in the past, for things like school. So if they got an education and a job at the time they could give their family privilege. And seeing as it is the current year, the GI bill doesn't discriminate(I won't say help) on race.

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  neighborhood improvements and infrastructure for white areas,

http://atlantablackstar.com/2016/08/11/1...america-2/

Didn't know white folks could get that dark. Neat Sleepy

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  and other types of blatant discrimination)

Most of which don't exist, aren't due to race, or have no nuance.


(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I know the point they were making... I had to stop watching the video because it got ridiculous.

I'm sorry you think that's how peer review works. But it's really not. As I so frequently have to point out to Creationists who make the same argument, it's based on competition among ideas and competition between researchers, not cooperation and certainly not ideological uniformity.

First, watching only part of the video won't help your argument, because if you leave out any thing it won't help your argument.

Second, just because there is competition, doesn't mean that they don't ideologically conform. If you payed attention to the video you would see that the deer linked to studies explaining how there is an ideological uniformity. It might not be 100% exact, but they still agree on the same thing. Meaning that one person says that white privilage comes from A, and the Second says A is actually from B, that would be a competition. And if the person peer is liberal and agrees with that white privilege exist, one of them will get there paper published, even though both are wrong. In fact the studies he linked showed that more conservative points of view would improve sociology and the political diversity is more important that racial. Add on top of that a lot of sociological(and social psychological) papers aren't really repeatable. So I suggested you sit down and watch the whole thing.



(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  So, two opinion pieces (which I read and with which I agree, by the way) about increasing issue of "safe spaces" and suppression of free speech on campuses in the classrooms of some types of professor. What does it have to do with the field of sociology?

Where do you think these ideas of safe spaces and suppression of free speech comes from? Mathematics? No, sociology. Why, because they teach shit like oppression. They teach women, minorities, and homosexuals that they are oppressed, though when you look into it they are not. And what pushes this false narrative? Sociology.

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Well, the last one seems to be a good example of sociology as a science, but I don't know why you say it's a good example of peer review in sociology. It is a paper that has been cited twice (not a good sign), but I don't see a particular problem with the methodology. They ran an experiment to see if there really was a bias in video gaming, as alleged by several prominent female gamers and a number of feminist writers. What's your beef with that article?

This could be refuted with one factor. They are played halo 3, in 2015. You know how many people were playing halo 3 in 2015? Pretty much no one. The game was pretty much dead at the time. If they used something like call of duty advanced warfare, they could have had a less stupid point. And yet nobody double checked that. No one went, "Halo 3? Nobody plays that game. How do you expect to get a narrative of women in games from a game nobody plays? Don't you think a more up to date game would work?" But no they saw this, didn't even question why they were using Halo 3 and how that could damage the narrative, and just rolled with it. Nobody looked deep into it and even tried it themselves, because if they did, this would have been rejected. That fact you read through this and thought this was an alright example of peer review in sociology, kinda shows that the peer review is terrible.

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I said "people like Bill O'Really". (Note the sarcasm in how I spelled his name.)

I didn't known that people who aren't conservative that I listen to who point out the problems in sociology were like bill.

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  But it's why I said you're absorbing the propaganda narrative. It's bombarding you from a number of sources, and you're accepting it a little bit uncritically. You think you're examining it critically, and I'm trying to show you that it's not so.

You kinda sound like my dad when we debate religion. Also it might not be that I accept things uncritically, but it might be that you might be bias. We all have our biaes, but I channel them into stupid shit, like digimon lore. It might be that you have your own narrative and bias when it comes to this. I mean I say what privilage doesn't exist, and I am not white, I am black. What advantage do I have saying white privilage isn't a thing? I mean white women aren't lining up at my door wanting to have sex with me for it. So what advantage do I have of refuting white privilage?

Also you can't show me I am wrong, and then what you are saying is false or not looked into enough. Just sayin', from bro to bro.


(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  My friend is white and among the brightest people I know... and that's saying something. I pointed out his race because I know he has no inherent reason to promote the narrative you suggest is common among sociologists, and yet he argues strenuously that this is indeed what the data suggests.

You see, I said that people can do it unintentionally right? Also white guilt, so even if I did claim he was doing it intentionally, that would be the reason.

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  He is the first to call out bias and to critically examine the questions from every possible angle. He also criticizes the "echo chamber" effect, and in fact is the guy who first pointed me to an article I quoted on this forum about how professors are being terrified into silence by the demands of the students who think they deserve safe spaces and don't need to challenge their assumptions with disliked speech.

Yeah critical in the same way creationist are critical of each other. Just because you are critical of one persons bias, doesn't mean that you don't have a bias similar to his but in a different way.


And about liberal professors fearing there students. You created this monster, no one else.



(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  You know... it's funny. You apparently didn't read the article. She talks about how personal experience isn't a good way to analyze whether or not there's an issue... but all you've focused on is where she writes something that confirms your bias, missing that (about a paragraph after the first one you cited) she immediately goes on to write an entire piece about how it is a real phenomenon.

So she had a bad professor who did a stupid thing. She was right to be offended by the professor's idiocy. That does not mean the entire field of sociology is bunk.

First, I used it to give you an idea, not as the end all be all example

Second, It is common across universities in the west.

Third, And because it is common to teach this shit is sociology class, even though it is wrong they teach it anyway.


(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  The evidence certainly shows that it is. Decades of our mental circle jerk have said the same thing, time and again. '

There ya go buddy Wink

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  The thing you apparently think is the definition of white privilege just isn't it, as I wrote, above. What you have done is built up a strawman (or accepted someone else's strawman as real), and then gone on to give it a good kicking.

First I never once defined white privilage, I gave an example of how white privilage is false. That is why I used income. Because people go around saying that white people are privilaged because the make more. I used it as an example, not the end all be all. I don't take arguments off of what the opposition of the group says but the people who claim it. I ain't a liberal, so I don't play that way.




(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Hispanics are hugely discriminated against, as are asians, in a number of ways. I don't understand the sudden shift to the use of the "how many hate crimes do they suffer" metric. Most Asian-Amerians live in California, where hate crimes aren't as rampant, for one thing. And as the article below points out, many of the types of violence/intimidation against the Latinx community are badly reported (they use the term "muddled", which I like) because it's conflated with issues of immigration and the drug war.

https://www.quora.com/Why-arent-Asians-H...-as-blacks

Okay first really quora is your source? You know despite my arguing just know I love ya.

Alright you sourced it lets take a look.

Quote:Anti-Latin@ racism is often muddled with anti-immigrant and anti-terrorist and Drug War rhetoric. Anti-Asian racism is often derided as trivial and unremarkable.

Well even though immigration approval has increased, a good portion of people against illegal immigration. Some hispanics are postive about it while others are like yeah no fuck that shit.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2013/10/03/la...-improves/

Anti-terrorist, wrong race, not many hispanic terrorist.

And the drug war you don't hear much on race. I think the last time I heard race have something to do with it, it was when president trump pretty much said drugs are pooring from illegals from mexico. Granted he didn't point out that the war on drugs is also part of the reason why illegals poor into america, but to assume the war on drugs has promoted anti-hispanic rhetoric is wrong.

And I never seen any examples of asian racism ever used. Add on top of that this has nothing to do with hate crimes, it is a mute point. But you did quote quora as a source. Soooo.....

(06-01-2017 05:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Got any more red herrings or strawmen to throw out? Wink

You have to be right to be condescending, trust me it works better. Also there is a fallacy for pointing out fallacies that aren't there.

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07-01-2017, 08:52 AM
RE: Hate crime - torture - against white disabled teen
One of the things I always find amusing about this sort of thing.


These savages run around video recording their atrocities -- to document the act ----


And watch-----

They'll all plead "Not Guilty"......


Blink

.......................................

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07-01-2017, 09:40 AM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 09:45 AM by Gilgamesh.)
RE: Hate crime - torture - against white disabled teen
(07-01-2017 08:26 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(06-01-2017 05:33 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  And Vosur, you're a fucknut. I can't -2 rate you, yet, but I will as soon as I can. Fear not.

[Edit to Add: To explain for the rest of you, he -2 repped me because I'm "A textbook example of the obnoxiously arrogant and condescending liberal". I have no truck for people who would rate a person negative because of ideological disagreements, especially when I have done nothing but try to explain the problem of bias in how the narrative is spun about race in conservative circles. That's just a straight-up douchebag move.]

We just elected someone who doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't know jack shit about anything except business. He also believes in conspiracy theories, such as "millions of people voted illegally" and doesn't believe Obama was born in the U.S. The man is a complete embarrassment to the country, and deserves ridicule (especially for being a man baby), but oh look, liberals are "smug and condescending". Liberals have also been told they're "unpatriotic" or "evil" simply for being liberal, for decades. So, cry me a fucking river.

The sarcastic paraphrase is one of the most lazy rhetorical devices one can use. Go read a book you snaggle-toothe fuck.

lol'd:

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