Have Presidents Always Been Hated This Much?
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30-10-2013, 09:01 AM
RE: Have Presidents Always Been Hated This Much?
(30-10-2013 02:43 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Carter got a lot of flack at the time but most of why that is flawed. People we mad because there was some economic lows and he basically called out the country saying it's going to be worse unless people get their heads out of their asses.

He was right, and a lot of his goals were long term beneficial solutions like cutting foreign oil independence. Then the Reagan team arrived and put in more immediate impact short term boosters.

WTF? CL, you are normally better than this, but I think you're coming down with a mild case of the absols. Tongue

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30-10-2013, 10:26 AM
RE: Have Presidents Always Been Hated This Much?
(30-10-2013 02:43 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  People we mad because there was some economic lows and [Carter] basically called out the country saying it's going to be worse unless people get their heads out of their asses.

He was right, and a lot of his goals were long term beneficial solutions like cutting foreign oil independence. Then the Reagan team arrived and put in more immediate impact short term boosters.

Paul Volcker (Fed chairman under Carter and Reagan) and Milton Friedman disagree. Everybody knew that the reason the economy was such a disaster during the 70's was high inflation. But they also knew that it would be a very painful process to wean the country off the heroin (the money printing) and the President would suffer greatly during this withdrawal period. But they knew that it was necessary pain that had to be endured before recovery. Carter wouldn't let Volcker do it. Friedman advised Reagan that it would be painful, but necessary in the long term. And Reagan agreed to turn the printing press off and wring out the inflation. Reagan's approval ratings plummeted, and Friedman wrote that Reagan's advisers were telling him to turn the presses back on because he'd never get re-elected. But, according to Friedman, Reagan told him he'd rather see the country recover even if it cost him re-election, so he told Volcker to hold steady and see it through. Volcker was able to stabilize the currency and start a modest recovery before Reagan's re-election, so it ended up not costing him in the long run. However, according to Friedman, Carter wasn't willing to risk his political career.

Now I don't think it's fair to blame Carter, since it was Nixon's mess. And I am NOT a Reagan fan because he started spending like crazy on war mongering and trying to break the Soviet Union. I think the world would be much better off if we had let the Soviets reform at their own pace, like China did, rather than spending trillions pushing each other to the brink and then see them collapse in a ball of flame where a few communist leaders made off with all the money and their nuclear weapons are floating around unaccounted for.

However, what Reagan did right was stabilize the dollar and encourage entrepreneurship. During Carter, there were on average only 4 IPO's per year. Nobody was starting business with those high taxes since there was no reward for taking such a risk. After Reagan's tax cuts, the number of IPO's soared (this is public record from the NYSE) as people began to feel their hard work would be rewarded. And it was all these new enterprises that fueled the economic boom of the 90's.

So I think it's revisionist to say Carter was long-term and Reagan was short-term.
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30-10-2013, 10:48 AM
RE: Have Presidents Always Been Hated This Much?
Hated by who? Hated by american citizens or the rest of the world?

Many americans like to tell themselves that it's just a few countries or "bad people" that hate us.

Wrong, Most people outside the U.S. hate U.S. presidents, one of the obvious reasons, invading, mass murder, destroying countries, economies, and being the main catalyst for the poverty of billions of people.


next.

Drinking Beverage
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30-10-2013, 11:08 AM
RE: Have Presidents Always Been Hated This Much?
(30-10-2013 10:48 AM)I and I Wrote:  Hated by who? Hated by american citizens or the rest of the world?
next.

I think Carter was mainly hated by Americans because he took the blame for the inflation and economic woes Nixon caused. I was a baby during Carter's years so don't have any first hand info, but from what I've read of him lately, I imagine the rest of the world probably looked favorably on him. He seems to be more tolerant of peace than any modern Presidents, he also didn't insist that America was "exceptional" and didn't have to follow the rules and could use the rest of the planet as our toilet, and he didn't turn a blind eye to the atrocities in Israel. So I imagine he'd be likeable to most countries, except Israel of course.
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30-10-2013, 11:15 AM
Have Presidents Always Been Hated This Much?
(30-10-2013 11:08 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(30-10-2013 10:48 AM)I and I Wrote:  Hated by who? Hated by american citizens or the rest of the world?
next.

I think Carter was mainly hated by Americans because he took the blame for the inflation and economic woes Nixon caused. I was a baby during Carter's years so don't have any first hand info, but from what I've read of him lately, I imagine the rest of the world probably looked favorably on him. He seems to be more tolerant of peace than any modern Presidents, he also didn't insist that America was "exceptional" and didn't have to follow the rules and could use the rest of the planet as our toilet, and he didn't turn a blind eye to the atrocities in Israel. So I imagine he'd be likeable to most countries, except Israel of course.

I can't imagine why Israel would not like jimmy carter... Drinking Beverage

The carter administration was fairly typical actually. His administration did oversea the initial creation of Alqaeda among other typical empire activities.

Jimmy carter today is much more progressive than he was when president.
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30-10-2013, 12:43 PM
RE: Have Presidents Always Been Hated This Much?
(30-10-2013 11:15 AM)I and I Wrote:  I can't imagine why Israel would not like jimmy carter... Drinking Beverage

The carter administration was fairly typical actually. His administration did oversea the initial creation of Alqaeda among other typical empire activities.

Jimmy carter today is much more progressive than he was when president.

I don't know much about Carter and Israel, and nothing while he was President. But I like him only because he wrote "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid". What's going on in Israel is (imo) comparable to South Africa, but no other President will acknowledge it. So Carter got a big thumbs up in my book.
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30-10-2013, 04:54 PM
Have Presidents Always Been Hated This Much?
(30-10-2013 12:43 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(30-10-2013 11:15 AM)I and I Wrote:  I can't imagine why Israel would not like jimmy carter... Drinking Beverage

The carter administration was fairly typical actually. His administration did oversea the initial creation of Alqaeda among other typical empire activities.

Jimmy carter today is much more progressive than he was when president.

I don't know much about Carter and Israel, and nothing while he was President. But I like him only because he wrote "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid". What's going on in Israel is (imo) comparable to South Africa, but no other President will acknowledge it. So Carter got a big thumbs up in my book.

Ironically, Israel was the only country to not join the world in condemning and boycotting apartheid South Africa. As late as 1981 the fascist Israeli leadership sought to increase arms shipments to the fascist leadership of South Africa. Fascist apartheid governments stick together I guess.

Speaking of boycotts and fascist apartheid governments that need to be done away with...
The world is taking a similar approach to Israel as it did with South Africa. The E.U. Has just began its sanctions stage, and many academics and artists are joining the boycott. Stephen Hawking recently did as well. He was supposed to attend a science conference in Israel but then backed out.

Israel will go away in the same way and for the same reasons the South African government did. European rule over non european people doesn't last forever, it didn't last in South Africa or Algeria and it won't last in the Middle East.
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30-10-2013, 05:05 PM
RE: Have Presidents Always Been Hated This Much?
(30-10-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(30-10-2013 12:43 PM)frankksj Wrote:  I don't know much about Carter and Israel, and nothing while he was President. But I like him only because he wrote "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid". What's going on in Israel is (imo) comparable to South Africa, but no other President will acknowledge it. So Carter got a big thumbs up in my book.

Ironically, Israel was the only country to not join the world in condemning and boycotting apartheid South Africa. As late as 1981 the fascist Israeli leadership sought to increase arms shipments to the fascist leadership of South Africa. Fascist apartheid governments stick together I guess.

Speaking of boycotts and fascist apartheid governments that need to be done away with...
The world is taking a similar approach to Israel as it did with South Africa. The E.U. Has just began its sanctions stage, and many academics and artists are joining the boycott. Stephen Hawking recently did as well. He was supposed to attend a science conference in Israel but then backed out.

Israel will go away in the same way and for the same reasons the South African government did. European rule over non european people doesn't last forever, it didn't last in South Africa or Algeria and it won't last in the Middle East.

You are the biggest idiot in the world. You make these claims knowing you will be fact checked and then act as though it is a mystery why you are so disliked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_rel..._apartheid

Quote: In 1963, Israel imposed an arms embargo in compliance with United Nations Security Council Resolution 181, and recalled its ambassador.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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30-10-2013, 07:29 PM
Have Presidents Always Been Hated This Much?
(30-10-2013 05:05 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(30-10-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  Ironically, Israel was the only country to not join the world in condemning and boycotting apartheid South Africa. As late as 1981 the fascist Israeli leadership sought to increase arms shipments to the fascist leadership of South Africa. Fascist apartheid governments stick together I guess.

Speaking of boycotts and fascist apartheid governments that need to be done away with...
The world is taking a similar approach to Israel as it did with South Africa. The E.U. Has just began its sanctions stage, and many academics and artists are joining the boycott. Stephen Hawking recently did as well. He was supposed to attend a science conference in Israel but then backed out.

Israel will go away in the same way and for the same reasons the South African government did. European rule over non european people doesn't last forever, it didn't last in South Africa or Algeria and it won't last in the Middle East.

You are the biggest idiot in the world. You make these claims knowing you will be fact checked and then act as though it is a mystery why you are so disliked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_rel..._apartheid

Quote: In 1963, Israel imposed an arms embargo in compliance with United Nations Security Council Resolution 181, and recalled its ambassador.

And you are a dumbass. In 1973 Israel reestablished military ties and cooperation with South Africa. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–So..._Agreement

I am hated because I state facts, you are an idiot because you posted something that happened in the 60s but was reversed in the 70's. Why would you purposely leave out certain info in attempts to make a fascist government look better?
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30-10-2013, 08:23 PM
RE: Have Presidents Always Been Hated This Much?
Does anybody know why on an atheist forum people would get so defensive if you say bad (and true) things about a religious state, like Israel? I read an opinion poll once taken in Israel, and half of Israeli's, including many very religious Jews, were strongly opposed to Zionism (ie a religious state). And here in the US, there are large protests of jews marching against Zionism, and protesting the treatment of Iran. Yet the US media doesn't cover it, so Americans imo think that Jews are all in favor of a religious state, and if an American points out the same exact facts about Zionism that these Jews point out, he's branded anti-Semitic. It should also be noted that Ahmadinejad has never condemned Israel or Jews, and Iran has orthodox Jews in Parliament and allied with the President. He condemns Zionism and the enslavement of the Palestinians. The rest of the world sees this as a reasonable issue. Americans think he's a lunatic for it.

Jews against Zionism in New York:
[Image: DSC00833.jpg]

[Image: ahmadinejad_afp.jpg]

[Image: Ahmadinejad.met.with.a.group.of.Jewish.rabbis.jpg]
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