Have you been in my position?
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02-07-2014, 01:56 PM
Have you been in my position?
Ok I am at a point in my life that I really don't know what to think anymore. I am 16 nearing 17 years old and well I am basically now unsure in Religion. Now when I was little I was a Christian and then I became somewhat agnostic around the age of 11ish. Then Around 14 I did something I regreted and I prayed the god for the first time in some years, basically saying I need to get out of this trouble. Then I got in trouble anyways, but I believed in god when it was over.

Thinking it was god's grace for a 2nd chance I became a christian and even joined a church. Then I realized that the church was okay but they talked alot about money and tithing and stuff. Then my church built a buildboard and the pastor claimed he spent 50,000 dollars on it(30,000 British Pounds basically), and my dad saw the billboard and said "There is no way that that billboard cost that much!". The pastor said he couldn't afford it by himself but with us giving more than normal he can pay for it.

Then I also realized that the people at the church were somewhat not welcoming towards me. I have social anxiety and it seems not a lot of people come up to me at that church(though it happens a lot with me with even non religious people at school.)

I then realized that my family situation never really improved. I started to realized that I am still sick somewhat, I am still depressed with no one to really speak to, and on top of that after really thinking things through the world has alot of bad and crazy things going on everyday.

I do have somethings at are somewhat hard to explain but it seems that if god is real he allows some terrible things going on. I am not sure what to think, if god is real he allows all this stuff to go on, and if he is not then he isn't here. But for you full on atheist out here what is the reason why you are completely an atheist and can fully say there isn't a god?

I am asking in a curious and want to know manner and I am not joking about this but I just want your reason.
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02-07-2014, 02:09 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
(02-07-2014 01:56 PM)CaptainParker Wrote:  Ok I am at a point in my life that I really don't know what to think anymore. I am 16 nearing 17 years old and well I am basically now unsure in Religion. Now when I was little I was a Christian and then I became somewhat agnostic around the age of 11ish. Then Around 14 I did something I regreted and I prayed the god for the first time in some years, basically saying I need to get out of this trouble. Then I got in trouble anyways, but I believed in god when it was over.

Thinking it was god's grace for a 2nd chance I became a christian and even joined a church. Then I realized that the church was okay but they talked alot about money and tithing and stuff. Then my church built a buildboard and the pastor claimed he spent 50,000 dollars on it(30,000 British Pounds basically), and my dad saw the billboard and said "There is no way that that billboard cost that much!". The pastor said he couldn't afford it by himself but with us giving more than normal he can pay for it.

Then I also realized that the people at the church were somewhat not welcoming towards me. I have social anxiety and it seems not a lot of people come up to me at that church(though it happens a lot with me with even non religious people at school.)

I then realized that my family situation never really improved. I started to realized that I am still sick somewhat, I am still depressed with no one to really speak to, and on top of that after really thinking things through the world has alot of bad and crazy things going on everyday.

I do have somethings at are somewhat hard to explain but it seems that if god is real he allows some terrible things going on. I am not sure what to think, if god is real he allows all this stuff to go on, and if he is not then he isn't here. But for you full on atheist out here what is the reason why you are completely an atheist and can fully say there isn't a god?

I am asking in a curious and want to know manner and I am not joking about this but I just want your reason.

Cap,
A lot of folks here have been in your position. Many of us stepped away from our faiths because of the total and utter lack of evidence for a god and the numerous contradictions, falsehoods and fallacies in whatever "scripture" it was that we were following. Look at the "Share your de-conversion story" thread near the top of the page if you want to read actual stories.

Welcome aboard. Never stop questioning and thinking.

Doc
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02-07-2014, 02:17 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
Hi and welcome to the forums

I was where you where once. The reason i am atheistic is I have never seen any compelling evidence that points to the existence of god. Nothing other than the subjective experiences of a few people whose grasp on reality I question at times has ever been presented to me.

I have a strong dislike towards organized religion because of the crazy things I have seen and had do to me in its name. In that sense I am also an anti-theist.

If the god of the Christian bible existed, as he is described in the new testament, a being of love and compassion with unlimited power but still does nothing to ease the suffering of his "creations" he is a paradox.

If he exists as described in the old testament this world would fit him well, though he seems to have gone strangely silent the last 2000 years or so.

I cannot tell you what to think of this, merely why I believe it so. the rest is up to you.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
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02-07-2014, 02:33 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
CaptainParker,

First, welcome! Smile

Many of us went through a similar process of believing, then doubting before finally becoming an atheist.

For me, the doubts started over a few things that didn't make sense such as the Christian god's (because I was Catholic) condemnation of homosexuals, the idea that an all-loving god would send people to hell for eternity - even for simply not believing in him when he doesn't even show himself visibly to us, the existence of disease and natural disasters contrasted with a supposedly all-loving god, and the Bible itself with all it's violence, contradictions, and frankly utter nonsense.

After examining Catholicism much more closely, I found so many things that made no sense and were typically excused with "God works in mysterious ways" or "our finite minds cannot understand God's infinite plans" that I finally turned away from it. I then looked briefly at other religions and found similar issues.

Ultimately, I concluded that not only is there no evidence to support the existence of any earthly-conceived god, but there is much evidence and arguments against it that come from logic, science, anthropology, psychology, and history. All of that together provides for me an overwhelming indication that no earthly-conceived god can possibly exist; at least none conceived to date.

So that only leaves a deity which, if you don't already know, is a god who created the universe, but doesn't interact with us at all. I don't believe the existence of a deity can be disproved, but so far, I don't have even one reason to believe such a deity exists. So I therefore don't believe one does exist.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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02-07-2014, 02:44 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
For me, it was quite simple. Firstly, the bible reads like a fairy tale, the gruesome ones like Brothers Grimm. Not exactly convincing.

Secondly, if such a god being existed, it would be a cruel SOB and not worthy of worship.

That's all I needed to walk away.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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02-07-2014, 02:46 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
I base my atheism on a lack of evidence - it's not that I'm not open to the idea - the burden of proof is on the theist to prove it.
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02-07-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
(02-07-2014 01:56 PM)CaptainParker Wrote:  Ok I am at a point in my life that I really don't know what to think anymore. I am 16 nearing 17 years old and well I am basically now unsure in Religion. Now when I was little I was a Christian and then I became somewhat agnostic around the age of 11ish. Then Around 14 I did something I regreted and I prayed the god for the first time in some years, basically saying I need to get out of this trouble. Then I got in trouble anyways, but I believed in god when it was over.

Thinking it was god's grace for a 2nd chance I became a christian and even joined a church. Then I realized that the church was okay but they talked alot about money and tithing and stuff. Then my church built a buildboard and the pastor claimed he spent 50,000 dollars on it(30,000 British Pounds basically), and my dad saw the billboard and said "There is no way that that billboard cost that much!". The pastor said he couldn't afford it by himself but with us giving more than normal he can pay for it.

Then I also realized that the people at the church were somewhat not welcoming towards me. I have social anxiety and it seems not a lot of people come up to me at that church(though it happens a lot with me with even non religious people at school.)

I then realized that my family situation never really improved. I started to realized that I am still sick somewhat, I am still depressed with no one to really speak to, and on top of that after really thinking things through the world has alot of bad and crazy things going on everyday.

I do have somethings at are somewhat hard to explain but it seems that if god is real he allows some terrible things going on. I am not sure what to think, if god is real he allows all this stuff to go on, and if he is not then he isn't here. But for you full on atheist out here what is the reason why you are completely an atheist and can fully say there isn't a god?

I am asking in a curious and want to know manner and I am not joking about this but I just want your reason.

It's normal at your age to be making up your mind about religion.

Yes, I have been in your exact situation before, though I was younger.
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02-07-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
(02-07-2014 01:56 PM)CaptainParker Wrote:  But for you full on atheist out here what is the reason why you are completely an atheist and can fully say there isn't a god?

Welcome to the forums.

You might find that we "full-on atheists" are not all committed to "fully say there isn't a god".

Some are, some aren't.

All you need to be an atheist is to have no belief in god(s). That doesn't mean you're ready to hop on on a soap box and shout to the world that there is no such thing as god. Fine, if that's what you believe, and fine if it isn't.

Lack of belief is not the same thing as believing god doesn't exist.

To put it another way, theists believe in some god/deity/power/whatever. Atheists don't. It's really that simple.

From your post, it sounds like you're already there. Already losing your belief in god. That's it. That's all you need. Welcome to atheism.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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02-07-2014, 03:15 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
I'd also add that outside of a philosophical problem that I've already outlined, the other thing I could never understand is why God's religious institutions need money if their message was so good.
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02-07-2014, 03:33 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
Hey Captain, welcome aboard Thumbsup

Do take the time to read the de-conversion stories, I guarantee that afterwards you won't feel alone.

Let me pull an analogy out of my back pocket and see if it rings a bell for you.

Imagine if you had a puppy and everytime it peed on the newspaper in the corner you gave it a cookie and every time it peed on the carpet you hit it with a rolled up magazine. It wouldn't take very long for the dog to figure out how to get a treat and how to avoid punishment.

Now imagine you had a child and everytime it went to church or prayed you sang its praises and every time the child didn't you psychologically and emotionally punished it by telling it how evil it was and how God would send it to hell.

Fast forward: the puppy grows up and escapes and realizes that it can pee anywhere without being punished but also that the rewards are gone. Pretty much the way every wild animal goes through life, soon enough the dog doesn't even remember peeing on newspapers or carpets, it prefers trees and fire hydrants.

Fast forward: the child grows up and leaves the home of the parents and stops going to church and praying and realizes that it isn't being punished but the praises are gone. Pretty much the way every human that has ever lived without woo goes through life, soon enough the adult doesn't remember what all the guilt trips were about, it prefers to use reason to deal with reality.

You are begining to take the step from child to adult and it is confusing and sometimes painful but please continue to use reason and think for yourself. It is perfectly OK to find yourself at this stage of your life bewildered about religion and the "training" or "brainwashing" you have been put through all your young life.

Come to the forum and stick around, you'll see you aren't alone in all of this.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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