Have you been in my position?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-07-2014, 03:38 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
(02-07-2014 01:56 PM)CaptainParker Wrote:  I do have somethings at are somewhat hard to explain but it seems that if god is real he allows some terrible things going on. I am not sure what to think, if god is real he allows all this stuff to go on, and if he is not then he isn't here.

What you've got there is the gist of what is known as "The problem of evil", google that phrase for a full explanation.

Technically we cannot say definitively that no god exists. We can say, as the others have, that there no compelling evidence for any god and Hitchins held that we can say that any god that exists is certainly not the god of the bible.

We can say that there is compelling evidence that religion is a fabrication and a scam, your billboard story waves in that general direction.

"While religions tell us next to nothing useful or true about the universe, they do tell us an enormous amount - perhaps an embarrassing amount - about ourselves, about what we value, fear and lust after." Iain M Banks
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-07-2014, 03:40 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
If you don't believe in Father Christmas and behave in a good way that your parents approve you won't get fancy Christmas presents, in fact you'll have bad luck for the whole year.

Sound familiar? Religion is the same schtick, just with more violent punishments and more enticing rewards. It's a lie designed to control you. That's all.

I say this so confidently, always remember, that is my personal opinion, and you are free to disagree with it - but... it is what I truly believe.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-07-2014, 03:52 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
Probably. I know all the positions.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-07-2014, 03:53 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
Yeah I guess I am starting to doubt again, and yeah alot of churches are scams though. Though it does make since that organized religion probably isn't exactly right, though I have no idea whether something created us or not. I do come from a very religous area as well, and one of my parents are religous while one is basically an agnostic ex -Catholic.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-07-2014, 04:30 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
My first doubts came from a realization about how answer to prayer was trick Christians played on themselves.
As you continue with learning, your reasons can become much deeper. Detailed understanding of the process of evolution, cosmology, biology, philosophical and logical flaws in religious thought and an understanding on the origins of mythology and how it is created.
It can be an enjoyable intellectual journey.....

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheInquisition's post
02-07-2014, 05:45 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
Religion is simple. It's a load of bullshit.
It started out as a way of explaining how things occurred that our ancestors had no idea about, ie: the sun and moon. They didn't have the knowledge that we have today to know that the Earth orbits the Sun and the Moon orbits the Earth and the Earth's tilt results in seasons and the gravitational pull of the Moon causes tides etc.. etc.. etc..
This enlightenment of our place in the universe is a very recent thing only occurring in the last several hundred years.

Religion meanwhile has been the explanation to all those fundamental questions people wonder about for thousands of years. It has evolved and twisted and it was discovered that it could be used to control people and so it was molded to include ways in how you're suppose to behave, not just answer questions of where we come from. And so Heaven and Hell and sin etc.. etc.. etc.. were added as a way of subjugating the people.
If your power derives from divine right than you don't want people questioning the existence of God.

What we have to understand today is that all the initial stuff, the "where do we come from?", "who are we?" etc.. etc.. etc.. can be answered accurately with science today. We need to open our eyes to the evidence that cavemen and bronze age shepherds were wrong about the universe.
Once we open our eyes to this we realize that the rest, all the added subjugation stuff of Heaven, Hell and sin etc.. etc.. etc.. can not be true because the founding points (where we came from, who we are etc.. etc.. etc..) aren't true because we have the evidence to support that they're wrong.

What you have to understand is that big things in society like religion take a very long time to die out. When you get it passed down from generation to generation it takes a very long to die out. Racism is a good one. Once the slaves were free that didn't instantly mean black Americans had an easy time. It takes a very long time for a population to adjust and seep out racism, just the same as it takes a very very long time for an entire planet to seep out bronze age ideas.

You must think critically on this issue because if you do than there is zero reason why you'd be religious. The evidence is just not there to support it and in fact there is a ton of evidence to contradict it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes earmuffs's post
02-07-2014, 06:39 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
(02-07-2014 01:56 PM)CaptainParker Wrote:  Ok I am at a point in my life that I really don't know what to think anymore. I am 16 nearing 17 years old and well I am basically now unsure in Religion. Now when I was little I was a Christian and then I became somewhat agnostic around the age of 11ish. Then Around 14 I did something I regreted and I prayed the god for the first time in some years, basically saying I need to get out of this trouble. Then I got in trouble anyways, but I believed in god when it was over.

Thinking it was god's grace for a 2nd chance I became a christian and even joined a church. Then I realized that the church was okay but they talked alot about money and tithing and stuff. Then my church built a buildboard and the pastor claimed he spent 50,000 dollars on it(30,000 British Pounds basically), and my dad saw the billboard and said "There is no way that that billboard cost that much!". The pastor said he couldn't afford it by himself but with us giving more than normal he can pay for it.

Then I also realized that the people at the church were somewhat not welcoming towards me. I have social anxiety and it seems not a lot of people come up to me at that church(though it happens a lot with me with even non religious people at school.)

I then realized that my family situation never really improved. I started to realized that I am still sick somewhat, I am still depressed with no one to really speak to, and on top of that after really thinking things through the world has alot of bad and crazy things going on everyday.

I do have somethings at are somewhat hard to explain but it seems that if god is real he allows some terrible things going on. I am not sure what to think, if god is real he allows all this stuff to go on, and if he is not then he isn't here. But for you full on atheist out here what is the reason why you are completely an atheist and can fully say there isn't a god?

I am asking in a curious and want to know manner and I am not joking about this but I just want your reason.
Hi, I am a Christian and would like to respond to your post to point out a few things. First off, on this forum you will find many people like yourself who feel they lost faith in their religion.

I would like to have you consider this. When a person uses the word "faith" it can have several meanings. Here on this forum it is going to mean belief in something without evidence. Hence it is equivalent to superstition. That is not what faith means in scripture however. In scripture, the word faith means trust. And this trust is pertaining to Love, and not something or someone for which there is no evidence.

I don't belong to any so called religion but yet I am a person who trusts in the Christ. The Spirit of Christ is real. His is the Love that is self sacrificing for the sake of others. Being a Christian is walking in that Spirit that Loves others as yourself. It is not about belonging to a congregation or going to church or any other religious observances that may be misconstrued as faith. I have been in your shoes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-07-2014, 06:55 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
(02-07-2014 06:39 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(02-07-2014 01:56 PM)CaptainParker Wrote:  Ok I am at a point in my life that I really don't know what to think anymore. I am 16 nearing 17 years old and well I am basically now unsure in Religion. Now when I was little I was a Christian and then I became somewhat agnostic around the age of 11ish. Then Around 14 I did something I regreted and I prayed the god for the first time in some years, basically saying I need to get out of this trouble. Then I got in trouble anyways, but I believed in god when it was over.

Thinking it was god's grace for a 2nd chance I became a christian and even joined a church. Then I realized that the church was okay but they talked alot about money and tithing and stuff. Then my church built a buildboard and the pastor claimed he spent 50,000 dollars on it(30,000 British Pounds basically), and my dad saw the billboard and said "There is no way that that billboard cost that much!". The pastor said he couldn't afford it by himself but with us giving more than normal he can pay for it.

Then I also realized that the people at the church were somewhat not welcoming towards me. I have social anxiety and it seems not a lot of people come up to me at that church(though it happens a lot with me with even non religious people at school.)

I then realized that my family situation never really improved. I started to realized that I am still sick somewhat, I am still depressed with no one to really speak to, and on top of that after really thinking things through the world has alot of bad and crazy things going on everyday.

I do have somethings at are somewhat hard to explain but it seems that if god is real he allows some terrible things going on. I am not sure what to think, if god is real he allows all this stuff to go on, and if he is not then he isn't here. But for you full on atheist out here what is the reason why you are completely an atheist and can fully say there isn't a god?

I am asking in a curious and want to know manner and I am not joking about this but I just want your reason.
Hi, I am a Christian and would like to respond to your post to point out a few things. First off, on this forum you will find many people like yourself who feel they lost faith in their religion.

I would like to have you consider this. When a person uses the word "faith" it can have several meanings. Here on this forum it is going to mean belief in something without evidence. Hence it is equivalent to superstition. That is not what faith means in scripture however. In scripture, the word faith means trust. And this trust is pertaining to Love, and not something or someone for which there is no evidence.

I don't belong to any so called religion but yet I am a person who trusts in the Christ. The Spirit of Christ is real. His is the Love that is self sacrificing for the sake of others. Being a Christian is walking in that Spirit that Loves others as yourself. It is not about belonging to a congregation or going to church or any other religious observances that may be misconstrued as faith. I have been in your shoes.

@OP and do you trust bronze age shepherds OR do you trust mountains upon mountains of scientific, peer reviewed, go check it out for yourself data?

Just because someone says "I trust/believe Christ is real, therefore he is" doesn't make Christ real.
Think critically, not stupidly.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like earmuffs's post
02-07-2014, 07:37 PM
RE: Have you been in my position?
(02-07-2014 01:56 PM)CaptainParker Wrote:  Ok I am at a point in my life that I really don't know what to think anymore. I am 16 nearing 17 years old and well I am basically now unsure in Religion. Now when I was little I was a Christian and then I became somewhat agnostic around the age of 11ish. Then Around 14 I did something I regreted and I prayed the god for the first time in some years, basically saying I need to get out of this trouble. Then I got in trouble anyways, but I believed in god when it was over.

Thinking it was god's grace for a 2nd chance I became a christian and even joined a church. Then I realized that the church was okay but they talked alot about money and tithing and stuff. Then my church built a buildboard and the pastor claimed he spent 50,000 dollars on it(30,000 British Pounds basically), and my dad saw the billboard and said "There is no way that that billboard cost that much!". The pastor said he couldn't afford it by himself but with us giving more than normal he can pay for it.

Then I also realized that the people at the church were somewhat not welcoming towards me. I have social anxiety and it seems not a lot of people come up to me at that church(though it happens a lot with me with even non religious people at school.)

I then realized that my family situation never really improved. I started to realized that I am still sick somewhat, I am still depressed with no one to really speak to, and on top of that after really thinking things through the world has alot of bad and crazy things going on everyday.

I do have somethings at are somewhat hard to explain but it seems that if god is real he allows some terrible things going on. I am not sure what to think, if god is real he allows all this stuff to go on, and if he is not then he isn't here. But for you full on atheist out here what is the reason why you are completely an atheist and can fully say there isn't a god?

I am asking in a curious and want to know manner and I am not joking about this but I just want your reason.

When I really questioned my religion, the only reason I could come up with why I believed in Christianity was because of indoctrination. I believed in Christianity for the same reason that 99% of people in the Middle East believe in Islam: because I was brought up to believe in it. It's not like I came into the situation looking at things from all angles and saying "Christianity obviously makes the most sense!" I was simply raised to believe that Christianity was true.

There were a lot of other factors too though. I didn't like the idea that I was more special in the eyes of the "one true god" than billions of other people on this planet. The whole "my religion is right and all others are wrong" thing automatically implies that I was brought up to believe what was right while billions of other people were brought up to believe in something wrong. It seemed incredibly conceited (and it is).

I didn't like the way the church did not like you to question religion. If Christianity is true, then why should they have any fear about it being questioned? Wouldn't it simply come out showing to be true anyway? I realized that religion doesn't want critical thinkers, it wants sheep. Besides, if all of these ridiculous miracles that the Bible claims to have really happened were true, how come we never see any of that shit today?

I also didn't like the cherry picking. One minute some Christian is reciting some phrase from the Bible because it sounds nice, yet they completely gloss over the really bad, immoral shit condoned in the Bible, especially in parts like Leviticus. They also get really angry when you bring those things up, because they feel that their beliefs are beyond criticism and you're just supposed to let them preach whatever they want and never point out their hypocrisy.

There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know, but let's try to find that answer!" as an answer for things like 'What are the origins of the universe?' The religious attitude is always "If you don't have an answer, then my answer is right, because a bullshit answer is better than no answer at all!"

I have no reason to believe in a god for the same reason that I have no reason to believe in fairies: because there is no evidence for either of them. The only difference is that billions of people have been tricked into doing the former. Even if you get 6 billion people to believe a lie, it's still a lie. There is a reason why the number of people believing those lies is declining.

If God actually comes and shows himself to me, then I'll believe in him. In fact, he and I can sit down and have tea and crumpets while he explains to me why kids get sexually abused and all the other terrible shit that happens to people who don't deserve it, and why he didn't help them.

Until then, I'm going to live my life to the fullest and not worry myself with superstitious garbage, especially when the only reason why I ever believed that superstitious garbage at one time was because I was brought up to believe in it.

Welcome aboard. Thumbsup

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-07-2014, 12:45 AM
RE: Have you been in my position?
Of course I've been in your position. And then the several subsequent positions you'll soon be in after this one. (Remember: just when you think you've arrived at your final viewpoint, you'll surprise yourself and change again)


I should point out, though, that I don't necessarily believe there isn't a god. I am a "full-on atheist," but one needn't believe there is no god in order to be an atheist. All one needs to do is lack the belief that there is.

Now, sure, I believe that specific gods don't exist (Yahweh, Allah, Odin, Ninkasi, Zeus, etc.), and my reason is that there is significant evidence against their existence. The existence of these deities (and more) would contradict the established nature of reality. Thus, these gods not only do not exist, but can not exist. (One example is that Yahweh flooded the entire earth. The entire earth has never been flooded. Thus, Yahweh - as described - does not exist)

If we're speaking about a general god-figure, however, I don't necessarily believe it doesn't exist. I just lack a belief that it does. Why? No evidence. Simple. If valid evidence were to be offered, I'd happily change my mind.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: