Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
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20-05-2012, 05:42 AM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(20-05-2012 04:46 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(20-05-2012 04:27 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Are you starting again, Arctic? I kan tell that when you said sage, you meant the bush. Big Grin
That's very funny, so funny I forgot to laugh, yet it contributes nothing to this thread.
Been there, done that.

So I'm reading this book, and Tia's like, We gotta fight for the people! and Dirk's like, What we, what people? Most people live their lives just fine without following your noble cause. What the fuck you after, Arctic? The truth? The truth, now, is never what is was. Never.




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20-05-2012, 05:44 AM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(20-05-2012 05:18 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  ...and hang with people who generally limit their level of crazy to obsession with certain minor celebrities Smile

You are not talking about my Gwynnies. Sleepy

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20-05-2012, 05:48 AM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(20-05-2012 05:30 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  Those are not the right set of questions, this isn't about me or what I want.


Pffft.

As I said before. There is nothing that would satisfy you. You DO believe in God. Her name is Conspiracy.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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20-05-2012, 05:55 AM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(20-05-2012 05:22 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(20-05-2012 05:18 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  I must have joined the wrong forum. I thought this was a forum where I could keep some distance from people who believe things without good reasons, and hang with people who generally limit their level of crazy to obsession with certain minor celebrities Smile
I can't say about the wrong forum, but I can guarantee you you're not in the right thread if this is what you're going to be talking about. Seriously, your inability to answer a simple question astounds me.
I've never had any serious evidence put in front of me on either subject, through I have been approached be a few foaming mouthed individuals trying to press me on the topics. For 9/11 denialism in my circles there is a high correlation between this and religious crazy, by which I mean highly religious people with genuine mental problems. For them the denialist communities are places where their crazy seems sane and they can feed themselves as much crazy as they want. My mother in law was specifically hospitalised after going off the deep end under the influence of these motherfuckers.

I choose not to believe things that there are no evidence for, and I choose not to support communities of crazy where people who have stopped taking their pills get together for rambling sessions. The specifics of the holocaust are not all that interesting to me or relevant to my life, and even if certain parts of it had been overblown I would consider this a historical oddity rather than anything significant to the present. 9/11 conspiracies I put plainly into the crazy bucket, alongside some of the more extreme religious cults.

Does that answer your question more directly?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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20-05-2012, 06:09 AM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
I have listened to the claims of both and have done so dispassionately. Their arguments lack little things like facts, cohesion, an ounce of sane reasoning and do not contradict historical records or demonstrable evidence.

If you want reasonable people to evaluate claims you need to rational arguments not some tripe about the evil Bush regime and a bunch of Neo Nazi paranoia.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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20-05-2012, 06:15 AM (This post was last modified: 20-05-2012 06:22 AM by TheArcticSage.)
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(20-05-2012 05:55 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  I've never had any serious evidence put in front of me on either subject. I choose not to believe things that there are no evidence for. The specifics of the holocaust are not all that interesting to me or relevant to my life, and even if certain parts of it had been overblown I would consider this a historical oddity rather than anything significant to the present. 9/11 conspiracies I put plainly into the crazy bucket.

Does that answer your question more directly?
There you see that? That is all that can actually contribute to this thread.

You don't honestly expect the truth to walk right up to you and lay down for you to see all of it's glory do you? Not in this world, if you want the truth YOU have to hunt for the evidence, others can help you, but they can not do it for you. Instead of worrying about the details of the holocaust you should actually be worrying about whether or not the holocaust happened at all. Also, you shouldn't have a crazy bucket, putting things in there is just an excuse not to question them. You pretty much murder your critical thinking capabilities then and there, and why should you be the one who is looking for the evidence? Your a critical thinker aren't you? Well that's what critical thinkers do, they hunt for evidence for both sides of the story.

but yes that does answer my question, thank you.
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20-05-2012, 06:22 AM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(20-05-2012 06:09 AM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  I have listened to the claims of both and have done so dispassionately. Their arguments lack little things like facts, cohesion, an ounce of sane reasoning and do not contradict historical records or demonstrable evidence.

If you want reasonable people to evaluate claims you need to rational arguments not some tripe about the evil Bush regime and a bunch of Neo Nazi paranoia.
Maybe you've been looking in the wrong places? If the holocaust never happened I would say that historical records pertaining to it would pretty much be moot anyways right? You agree right? anything pertaining to a god wouldn't matter if said god didn't exist in the first place. Maybe you weren't looking at both sides equally?

The facts are there, I could show them to you, but that would do little good to either of us if you are not already looking for them but rather just have your eyes set on what you previously were told, and all it took was a few little pictures and some eye witnesses to convince you. Doesn't sound very factual.
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20-05-2012, 10:33 AM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
Ive never questioned the holocaust artic....... I see it as one of the worst atrocities that ever happened in recent times where a lot of people died, but then it wouldnt surprise me if they cooked the numbers... the victors allways write the history books.

Do I think 9/11 was a pre planned terrorist attack that was profited off and opened up the door to a new "boogeyman" in the name of control AKA anything that can be brandished a terrorist??? Yes I do.

We are all biased in our own way...... you can be just as brainwashed in conspiracy as you can be in the mainstream......... the truth is we all go to the television and the internet for our information........ overall we apply so much "trust and faith" to these sources whilst not actually living or "experiencing" much if any of what we read and discuss.

In this we are all equal.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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20-05-2012, 03:59 PM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(19-05-2012 11:30 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  If you choose not to question them, how can you say your a critical thinker?

That's coming off a lot like: if you're not a conspiracy theorist, at large, you're not a critical thinker.

911 and the Holocaust really are not at the epicenter of philosophical and scientific questioning/thinking/reason. They are more in line with conspiracy theory.

To answer the question: have I really gotten into all the information and rigorously dissected bits and pieces to come out with a clear cut answer and point of view, totally ready to argue the facts with anyone willing to question? Hell no, not even close; not even half that.

I have I Consider'd or Confused 'd for a minute? Yeah, I would say I have. But in the end it's kind of like Rolleyes.

Let those without anything better to do think about things like this, and if they come up with something miraculous and it comes out, then I'll examine my position again and see where I stand, maybe, if I feel it's worth my time.

You really do have to be a conspiracy theorist to think about these types of things and kind of be wired a certain way. I wouldn't call it questioning or critical thinking, it's more of an innate skepticism and lack of trust. There is really shit that happens all the time that gets swept under the rug and minor conspiracies are all throughout history. Certain people gravitate toward those instances more than others and want to seek truth in things that are just accepted by the mainstream. In some instances these types of people can bring about a lot of truth out of history that otherwise wouldn't have been known, but a lot of the times you find these people dabbling in a circle of never ending conspiracy that makes it seem like the whole world is Adjustment Bureau in nature, or maybe just Illuminati controlled. They can be good sometimes, other times they can just be a pain. It might lead to historical break through; it might also just lead to a Hollywood blockbuster.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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20-05-2012, 06:32 PM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(20-05-2012 03:59 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(19-05-2012 11:30 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  If you choose not to question them, how can you say your a critical thinker?
That's coming off a lot like: if you're not a conspiracy theorist, at large, you're not a critical thinker.
How about this, if someone did not give to their government the same skepticism they gave religion, would you consider them a critical thinker? Yeah I would and I wouldn't, because they are being skeptical on one subject, but they're not being skeptical about another.

and pardon me but skepticism and critical thinking has always gone hand in hand for me, and it is best that we apply them to everything and anything, least we make a fool of ourselves.
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