Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
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21-05-2012, 06:17 PM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(21-05-2012 05:55 PM)bemore Wrote:  Same thing happened on 7/7 (london bombings) with the met police running a "drill" of tube trains and buses being attacked.

Co-incidence???

Also to people who think that the goverment isnt capable of pulling such stunts off.......... Its ok return to your cosy bubble........ money isnt the biggest faith over any religion on this planet today ........ wars are fought for just reasons everysingle time........ democracy exists and you have a voice...... the mainstream media never have an agenda and allways publish the complete and utter truth.

I wrote this poem last month and I think it is fitting to repeat it here after my last statement.
Yeah I was actually a little bit more surprised to find out about the details behind the london bombings, I suppose that's probably because I had been suspicious of the U.S. for years but hadn't given the london bombings much thought at all.
Quote:If all you wanted was a yes or no answer you could have provided a poll. Or limited your op to something like: Well did ya?

Anyways my answer is yes. Now my question to you is, what answers would satisfy you?
The answer that makes the most sense and has evidence to back it up.
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21-05-2012, 06:26 PM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(21-05-2012 06:12 PM)BnW Wrote:  I've been watching this stupidity play out over several threads going back a few months now and I think the only answer that is going to satisfy him is one where you wholeheartedly agree with him and his paranoid fantasies. In his world, there are only two types of people:
1. People agree with everything he says and
2. people who are not questioning things, are closed-minded, etc.

Is the Holocaust real? What a fucking joke. I guess all those survivors were just making the whole thing up. Their families weren't murdered, they were just hiding under the bed.
Actually there are many types of people in this world but I categorize them into two sects.

1. Open minded
2. Closed minded

regardless if one agrees with me or not they can be either of the two. However I have noticed such things that open minded people are often more intelligent, but this is not always so. I also learned a long time ago that just because one is an atheist, does not mean that they are intelligent.

Now about what you said about the holocaust. It will be a cold day in hell before I ever take an eye witness account over scientific evidence. Regardless of the occasion. If people are telling the truth, the scientific evidence should agree with them. But you make a huge mistake when you just say that "because a large group of people have concluded the same thing, that must mean there's no reason to investigate into it."

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21-05-2012, 06:40 PM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
The correct distinction would be between:
1. Critical thinkers, and
2. Uncritical thinkers.
Uncritical thinkers such as theists and conspiracy theorists are inclined to believe things for no good reason. Well, that's natural. We all do it to some extent and are hard wired to do it. We would rather have a theory that is not well supported than no theory.



Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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21-05-2012, 06:50 PM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
Ill sum 7 years of "conspiracy research"

Goverments at the highest levels are prone to corruption.
Money cannot exist without debt.
Wars are fought for gains and not freedom.

The details are trivial....... we all inherently know that something is wrong with the world....... and its not human nature as we all seem to peacefully co-exist within our own personal lives with the people around us.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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21-05-2012, 06:57 PM (This post was last modified: 21-05-2012 07:06 PM by TheArcticSage.)
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(21-05-2012 06:40 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  The correct distinction would be between:
1. Critical thinkers, and
2. Uncritical thinkers.
Uncritical thinkers such as theists and conspiracy theorists are inclined to believe things for no good reason. Well, that's natural. We all do it to some extent and are hard wired to do it. We would rather have a theory that is not well supported than no theory.
Woaaah wait a minute now. Just because one is a theist or a conspiracy theorist does not automatically make them uncritical. I think it takes as much guts to criticize about religion as a theist as one would think about their government as one of it's citizens. It's not easy going against things you've been taught as a child. In fact some conspiracy theorists may be more critical than non conspiracy theorists, I admit not all conspiracy theorists are critical, but then again not all atheists are skeptical either. And as for the video, I've already seen it, it was a great video about open mindedness. Wink
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21-05-2012, 09:38 PM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(21-05-2012 05:55 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(21-05-2012 05:43 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  I see clearly from your remarks about conspiracy theorists that you may have chosen your side long before you even started questioning things. Which may lead to a biased conclusion. I am by no means, a racist, wingnut, or a nutter. I might be an asshole, but if I appear to be such it's because I don't care about a person's emotions as much as I do not care about my own. And yet you would call people like me these things merely to make my case look less important than it may be, and also to make any evidence that one could come up with as improbable.

You questioned it, but was it really to gain truth, or rather to garner support for a side you had already picked? You do not go into these things calling people brainwashed, or wingnuts, nor do you come out of them as such. Not unless you have an agenda. In such a case where you may have corrupted your own ability to analyze the world without biased you may want to look for the source which causes that corruption. I can not help you with that though. I have no cure for bigotry. Bigotry is a common by-product of ignorance and in such a case the only cure would be a better education mainly on the grounds of ethics and philosophy.

Take for example the fact that NORAD was having a military exercise about the EXACT same incident on the EXACT same day. I know... not suspicious at all. Suspicious people where shady clothes and go on about only at night. God forbid they should ever walk among us. And you would think all evil in the world would blatantly show it's face?
Same thing happened on 7/7 (london bombings) with the met police running a "drill" of tube trains and buses being attacked.

Co-incidence???

Also to people who think that the goverment isnt capable of pulling such stunts off.......... Its ok return to your cosy bubble........ money isnt the biggest faith over any religion on this planet today ........ wars are fought for just reasons everysingle time........ democracy exists and you have a voice...... the mainstream media never have an agenda and allways publish the complete and utter truth.

I wrote this poem last month and I think it is fitting to repeat it here after my last statement.

Lets blame the immigrants for taking all of the jobs.
Lets blame the sick and the doleys the lazy, good for nothing slobs.
Lets blame each other for spending too much.
Lets all accept the price of these unneccesary cuts.
Lets blame the hooded youth for rioting the shops.
Lets give even more power to the allready armed to the teeth cops.
Lets have multiple wars on unseen faraway shores.
Lets kill innocent people for "freedom" more.
Let us divert our attention away.... each and every single day.
Let us fragment the bigger picture
Quoting biased media as our scripture.

Well since you've discovered the truth about our evil government, why hasn't that same evil government simply killed and disposed of you - not to mention every other moron screaming the same drivel? Hell, they seem to be capable of killing 3,000 civilians at will, and with perfect precision. You should be no problem.

There is no conspiracy. You want to feel self important.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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21-05-2012, 09:57 PM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(21-05-2012 05:43 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(21-05-2012 11:10 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  I've looked at the evidence of a conspiracy on both cases, Sage, and the supporting evidence presented by these conspiracy nutters falls short.

The 9/11 wingnuts believe that the government is all knowing and all capable. So if a terrorist attack like that happened, the government MUST have know and aided in it.

The holocaust assholes - and they are assholes - are, by and large, racist organizations who hate jews and want to portray them as liars and killers. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence to indicate that the Holocaust did happen.
I see clearly from your remarks about conspiracy theorists that you may have chosen your side long before you even started questioning things. Which may lead to a biased conclusion. I am by no means, a racist, wingnut, or a nutter. I might be an asshole, but if I appear to be such it's because I don't care about a person's emotions as much as I do not care about my own. And yet you would call people like me these things merely to make my case look less important than it may be, and also to make any evidence that one could come up with as improbable.

You questioned it, but was it really to gain truth, or rather to garner support for a side you had already picked? You do not go into these things calling people brainwashed, or wingnuts, nor do you come out of them as such. Not unless you have an agenda. In such a case where you may have corrupted your own ability to analyze the world without biased you may want to look for the source which causes that corruption. I can not help you with that though. I have no cure for bigotry. Bigotry is a common by-product of ignorance and in such a case the only cure would be a better education mainly on the grounds of ethics and philosophy.

Take for example the fact that NORAD was having a military exercise about the EXACT same incident on the EXACT same day. I know... not suspicious at all. Suspicious people where shady clothes and go on about only at night. God forbid they should ever walk among us. And you would think all evil in the world would blatantly show it's face?
The same would apply to your argument. You have decided that 9/11 is an inside job and NO ONE can convince you otherwise. Have you ever asked yourself why 9/11 is an inside job would be bullshit? Have you ever considered arguments AGAINST holocaust denial?

I'm open to any ideas. But just like a preacher telling me God exists, I DEMAND PROOF WITH EVIDENCE.

The exercises happening that day did not involve preparation for, or a mock terrorist attack. No one in Al Queda knew these were happening and they never scheduled the attacks to coincide with these events as a decoy.




"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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21-05-2012, 09:58 PM (This post was last modified: 21-05-2012 10:07 PM by TheArcticSage.)
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(21-05-2012 09:38 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Well since you've discovered the truth about our evil government, why hasn't that same evil government simply killed and disposed of you - not to mention every other moron screaming the same drivel? Hell, they seem to be capable of killing 3,000 civilians at will, and with perfect precision. You should be no problem.

There is no conspiracy. You want to feel self important.
The less important I am the more likely I am to stay alive! Big Grin The government has killed troublemakers in the past, to name a few would be, Pat Tillman and Bill Cooper. But for now it won't kill me, I am not that important you silly billy. In fact, I feel lonely really.

(21-05-2012 09:38 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  The same would apply to your argument. You have decided that 9/11 is an inside job and NO ONE can convince you otherwise. Have you ever asked yourself why 9/11 is an inside job would be bullshit? Have you ever considered arguments AGAINST holocaust denial?

I'm open to any ideas. But just like a preacher telling me God exists, I DEMAND PROOF WITH EVIDENCE.

The exercises happening that day did not involve preparation for, or a mock terrorist attack. No one in Al Queda knew these were happening and they never scheduled the attacks to coincide with these events as a decoy.

I decided that 9.11 was organized by terrorists long before I changed my mind to that it was an inside job. So obviously someone convinced me otherwise. I have never asked myself why 9.11 being an inside job would be bullshit, because quite frankly, that is already in itself a biased question. I have asked myself how it could not be an inside job just as much as I have asked myself if it could have been. I have researched into both sides of the holocaust denial. I always go with the side I am less willing to believe in first, to give them the benefit of the doubt. In this case I went with the holocaust not happening first because I thought at the time that it was very unlikely to be true. When confronted with powerful evidence pointing towards the holocaust not happening I went to the other side to see what they would give in their response. As you can see, it obviously was not a very good one. Their response was not backed by science nor evidence, but rather an excuse for why things might procured the way they have.

The evidence is not going to come to your doorstep, you have to actively search for it, that is how you find truth.

And to your last part, of course Al Qaeda didn't know anything about them. But are you honestly going to stand there and tell me that it was all just a coincidence? Wow.
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21-05-2012, 10:10 PM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
(21-05-2012 09:58 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(21-05-2012 09:38 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Well since you've discovered the truth about our evil government, why hasn't that same evil government simply killed and disposed of you - not to mention every other moron screaming the same drivel? Hell, they seem to be capable of killing 3,000 civilians at will, and with perfect precision. You should be no problem.

There is no conspiracy. You want to feel self important.
The less important I am the more likely I am to stay alive! Big Grin The government has killed troublemakers in the past, to name a few would be, Pat Tillman and Bill Cooper. But for now it won't kill me, I am not that important you silly billy. In fact, I feel lonely really.

Ah, but you pose a threat to their power structure - exposing their secrets and free thinking are dangerous things. You're expected to be a silent servant of the man, paying your taxes and stocking your home with bullshit from Wal Mart and numbing your brain on a steady diet of sports and porn. You're not letting the man pull the wool over your eyes and telling others what the man is up to. That's gotta be fixed!

But they are not trying to take you out, huh? So what makes your situation here any different than you don't haven't uncovered any truths about 9/11 and the man simply doesnt consider you a threat? Simple Occam's Razor.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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21-05-2012, 10:12 PM
RE: Have you ever questioned the information about 9/11 or the holocaust?
As for the holocaust denial case, it's biggest advocate has been Fred Leuchter. He got torn apart in the Ernst Zundel case.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...1151939378

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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