Have you lost your morals yet?
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09-09-2014, 10:29 AM
RE: Have you lost your morals yet?
(09-09-2014 10:17 AM)Silo1180 Wrote:  This was one of the first things my wife said to me when I told her I was an Atheist, "But you're such a good person." I basically told her there's absolutely no reason to be an asshat, it would make like miserable. Still unacceptable to her, "You're probably the kindest man that I know."

So I went with, "Now imagine how even more special my acts of kindness are when they are just done out of kindness and not used as a means to garner some bling for my mansion in heaven!"

Since I told her I have; rescued a puppy from a major street (while she watched from the parking lot), performed first aid on a guy that passed out and busted his head open, ran a mile to guide first responders to a cyclist that wiped out and was not-responsive, gave up my prime seat at my kid's concert to a little old lady, plenty of other kind acts but these were the biggies to her. She can't fathom why I continue to do these things if there is no reward for them.

But I'm the scumbag Atheist!

Just give her a little time to wrap her head around it. Yes
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09-09-2014, 02:09 PM
RE: Have you lost your morals yet?
I have great morals FOR THE MOST part, BUT as I age and live on lower senior income, find it more difficult to keep myself healthy and going on my limited income....so what I've decided is that I may go my ashes with a credit card debit....

If our country can spend spend spend trillions on killing, I loath that world, I can leave my debt to the world.....the world debt will NEVER be paid off.....never.....

One friend says, the U.S. needs to just claim bankruptcy and that would be it....but we keep doing it, spending more and more on the war worlds....to me this is the biggest immoral crime in our lives..

I own basically nothing, live in rent controlled apt and one adult daughter, who is NOT responsible for her mother's debt when I go.
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11-09-2014, 11:45 AM
RE: Have you lost your morals yet?
Some one said "get over it, war is here forever and the profiteers will continue to profit".....so I'm getting over it more and more with my plan.......amen....
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11-09-2014, 12:59 PM
RE: Have you lost your morals yet?
(09-09-2014 10:17 AM)Silo1180 Wrote:  This was one of the first things my wife said to me when I told her I was an Atheist, "But you're such a good person." I basically told her there's absolutely no reason to be an asshat, it would make like miserable. Still unacceptable to her, "You're probably the kindest man that I know."

So I went with, "Now imagine how even more special my acts of kindness are when they are just done out of kindness and not used as a means to garner some bling for my mansion in heaven!"

Since I told her I have; rescued a puppy from a major street (while she watched from the parking lot), performed first aid on a guy that passed out and busted his head open, ran a mile to guide first responders to a cyclist that wiped out and was not-responsive, gave up my prime seat at my kid's concert to a little old lady, plenty of other kind acts but these were the biggies to her. She can't fathom why I continue to do these things if there is no reward for them.

But I'm the scumbag Atheist!


Oh my.
2 +2 is not 4 in her world

Awww

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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11-09-2014, 03:58 PM
RE: Have you lost your morals yet?
(02-09-2014 08:18 PM)beeglez Wrote:  So I have been following a story about an elderly man who was robbed, and of course someone commented that we needed more Jesus in our lives. I and some other people pointed out that Jesus wasn't required for morality. One guy actually said you LOSE your morals when you lose god. I was intrigued because I did used to be a Christian, and I still have my morals. I just asked myself "If I ran into a 90 year old war veteran, would I beat him up and take his money?". The answer was no, so I guess I still have the morals. Angel I asked the guy when I should expect the morals to go away by posing this question:

""Dan, when does the loss of morals begin? I have not been religious for about 13 years and officially declared myself an atheist a year ago. I still have all my morals, still donate to charity, still have compassion for others, still apologize to people I have wronged, and still go out of my way to be kind. I just need to know if the morals leave slowly over time, or if I'm just going to wake up one day with the urge to rob a bank or kill someone.""

I haven't heard back yet, but I'll keep you posted when I find out. Laugh out loadLaugh out load

Next time tell them that all evidence shows that there is a direct correlation with religion and LACK of morals. Largest religious group in US prisons? Christian at 65-70% (higher than their 55-60% US population in general) and the smallest? Atheists at .07% (lower than their 30-35% of US population in general)...enough said...what are those religious morals again?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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13-09-2014, 01:24 PM
RE: Have you lost your morals yet?
(07-09-2014 02:36 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(05-09-2014 06:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  There are no moral truths. There is an evolved moral sense; the rest we make up.
Yes, there are no moral truths.

"Evolved moral sense" is a nonsensical phrase given that there are no moral truths.

Moral terminology is a mess, almost worthless.

No, not nonsensical. It's been studied across races and cultures.

Even though morality isn't absolute it does not logically follow that it doesn't exist.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-09-2014, 01:41 PM
RE: Have you lost your morals yet?
(13-09-2014 01:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, not nonsensical. It's been studied across races and cultures.

Even though morality isn't absolute it does not logically follow that it doesn't exist.
Moral beliefs exist a.k.a. beliefs in moral truths.
However moral truths have not been proven to exist.

Just like beliefs in gods exist but gods have not been proven to exist.

Personally I think "morality" is a mess of conflation and generalisation and ambiguity.
People often consider their own personal opinions to be morality and expect others to abide by it even though they recognise that it is their opinion rather than a discoverable truth.
People often look at a society (a collection of individuals) and assume the majority of opinions represents the common morality of society. Which is a terrible generalisation. You will be hard pressed to find a single individual whose opinion is completely aligned with this generalisation. People are individuals. A society isn't a thinking thing, a society cannot have beliefs let alone moral beliefs.
Opinions do not equate to morality, behaviour does not equate to morality.

Morality is the concept of right and wrong regardless of reason. It is obligation, it is expectation that everyone is obligated to behave righteously.

Morality is nonsensical. You cannot have a moral sense without a belief in moral truths.
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13-09-2014, 03:50 PM
RE: Have you lost your morals yet?
(13-09-2014 01:41 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-09-2014 01:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, not nonsensical. It's been studied across races and cultures.

Even though morality isn't absolute it does not logically follow that it doesn't exist.
Moral beliefs exist a.k.a. beliefs in moral truths.
However moral truths have not been proven to exist.

Just like beliefs in gods exist but gods have not been proven to exist.

Personally I think "morality" is a mess of conflation and generalisation and ambiguity.
People often consider their own personal opinions to be morality and expect others to abide by it even though they recognise that it is their opinion rather than a discoverable truth.
People often look at a society (a collection of individuals) and assume the majority of opinions represents the common morality of society. Which is a terrible generalisation. You will be hard pressed to find a single individual whose opinion is completely aligned with this generalisation. People are individuals. A society isn't a thinking thing, a society cannot have beliefs let alone moral beliefs.
Opinions do not equate to morality, behaviour does not equate to morality.

Morality is the concept of right and wrong regardless of reason. It is obligation, it is expectation that everyone is obligated to behave righteously.

Morality is nonsensical. You cannot have a moral sense without a belief in moral truths.

I have no idea what you mean by 'moral truths'. Do mean mean absolute morals? Do you mean something independent of humans?

You are again straw-manning. I said there is an evolved moral sense, not evolved morals or morality.

When presented with moral/ethical problems, the vast majority of people - regardless of race, religion, or culture - agree on the answers.
Google "the trolley problem".

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-09-2014, 05:31 PM
RE: Have you lost your morals yet?
(13-09-2014 03:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  When presented with moral/ethical problems, the vast majority of people - regardless of race, religion, or culture - agree on the answers.
Google "the trolley problem".
People conflate many things with the term morality.
The most common thing conflated is "survival within society"
If we think about being a vulnerable individual who wants to live within society, then we realise that we need certain protections, e.g. not to be murdered or assaulted or to have our stuff stolen.
So it makes sense, that if the majority of people want to survive and want to live within a human society that we would see murder, rape, theft as "wrong".
But "morality" and "wrong" are just sloppy ways of thinking about the real reasons.
We can articulate much more clearly without using the sloppy moral terminolgy.
Moral terminology leads to a belief in right and wrong in of itself. It can lead to mystical beliefs and ultimately belief in a supernatural definer of moral truths.

There are no moral truths. Even when everyone agrees that rape is bad, this does not mean that "rape is bad" is a moral truth.
Each individual has their own personal opinions. They just tend to boldly promote that to a bigger moral standard and then somehow expect others to abide by it.
Morality = conformance and intolerance
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13-09-2014, 07:15 PM
RE: Have you lost your morals yet?
(13-09-2014 05:31 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-09-2014 03:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  When presented with moral/ethical problems, the vast majority of people - regardless of race, religion, or culture - agree on the answers.
Google "the trolley problem".
People conflate many things with the term morality.
The most common thing conflated is "survival within society"
If we think about being a vulnerable individual who wants to live within society, then we realise that we need certain protections, e.g. not to be murdered or assaulted or to have our stuff stolen.
So it makes sense, that if the majority of people want to survive and want to live within a human society that we would see murder, rape, theft as "wrong".
But "morality" and "wrong" are just sloppy ways of thinking about the real reasons.
We can articulate much more clearly without using the sloppy moral terminolgy.
Moral terminology leads to a belief in right and wrong in of itself. It can lead to mystical beliefs and ultimately belief in a supernatural definer of moral truths.

There are no moral truths. Even when everyone agrees that rape is bad, this does not mean that "rape is bad" is a moral truth.
Each individual has their own personal opinions. They just tend to boldly promote that to a bigger moral standard and then somehow expect others to abide by it.
Morality = conformance and intolerance

So, you didn't Google it.

I think we're done here; you didn't hardly try.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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