Have you read the quran
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18-05-2014, 06:12 PM
RE: Have you read the quran
(18-05-2014 08:33 AM)AnderSox Wrote:  But i don't get that one has to learn arabic to get the whole picture of the quran, when a perfect translation can give you the whole story. Isn't that like saying that i can't understand "Greek Mythology" if i don't understand greek?

The qur'an is in a kind of long-form of poetry that was popular at the time. Not a brilliant example of the genre according to some of its less obsequious critics, but something of the original flow is apparently lost in any translation.

"While religions tell us next to nothing useful or true about the universe, they do tell us an enormous amount - perhaps an embarrassing amount - about ourselves, about what we value, fear and lust after." Iain M Banks
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18-05-2014, 07:22 PM
RE: Have you read the quran
Ive Been to mosque with a Muslim friend, a terrorist looking bearded guy sang some quran verses, it was spine chilling beautiful.like an epic xfactor audition.

Just like opera sung in Italian it was musically awe inspiring but lyrically meaningless.
When I asked what the words meant I was given an evasive answer, made me wonder if any one of the hundred people there knew what they were listening too.
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18-05-2014, 07:40 PM
RE: Have you read the quran
From James Kritzeck's Anthology of Islamic Literature:

"That inimitable symphony, the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy," wrote Marmaduke Pickthall [a British Muslim who authored a widely read "explanatory translation"], describing the Koran. "As tedious a piece of reading as I ever undertook, a wearisome, confused jumble, crude, incondite--nothing but a sense of duty could carry any European through the Koran," was Thomas Carlyle's verdict. How could two sensitive and intelligent men of very similar backgrounds differ so markedly concerning a book which everyone knows is a world classic? The answer is complicated, but it can be made simple: Pickthall read Arabic and Carlyle did not."

Perhaps the fact that Pickthall was a Muslim and Carlyle was not may have had something to do with it as well. But regarding the language issue, Muslims have always maintained that the Qur'an / Koran (take your pick) can't be translated, since it is after all the actual dictation of God. (God apparently didn't feel it was necessary to dictate his final revelation to all of humanity in any language other than Arabic.) So at best there are "explanations of the meaning" rather than actual translations.

It's funny, though. Whatever the literary merits of the Bible may be, they don't seem to be hampered by translation. Many translations of the Bible are influential classics in the target languages (the Vulgate in Latin; the KJV in English; Luther's translation into German; . . . ). But the "explanatory translations" of the Qur'an, at least the ones I've seen in English, are pretty awful from a literary standpoint. The only answer, it seems, is to learn Arabic.

Another obstacle to appreciating whatever there is in the Qur'an to appreciate is the fact that after the first chapter or surah, the remaining 113 surahs are arranged in roughly descending order of length (not one of the brighter ideas in world literature). So surah #2 has 286 verses while #114 has 6. On top of that, the short surahs, which tend to be more poetic and less polemical, were "revealed" in Mecca before the longer political harangues were "revealed" in Medina. So you're reading the Qur'an in reverse order of composition.

Some of it does sound rather nice when it's chanted. But no amount of pretty chanting can salvage verses that tell men to beat their wives, or to destroy non-believers, or how, when you're in hell and your skin burns off, God will give you new skin so your suffering can continue.

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18-05-2014, 08:18 PM
RE: Have you read the quran
(18-05-2014 07:40 PM)cufflink Wrote:  Another obstacle to appreciating whatever there is in the Qur'an to appreciate is the fact that after the first chapter or surah, the remaining 113 surahs are arranged in roughly descending order of length (not one of the brighter ideas in world literature). So surah #2 has 286 verses while #114 has 6. On top of that, the short surahs, which tend to be more poetic and less polemical, were "revealed" in Mecca before the longer political harangues were "revealed" in Medina. So you're reading the Qur'an in reverse order of composition.

That's it - it's backwards! I thought something was odd but I couldn't put my finger on it - it had such a disjointed feel. That makes sense.

Ha - I just thought the long surah were mostly at the beginning and then, I figured it was just so long that god must have pooped out. Tongue
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I finished reading it a while back. It's online here. With or without translations. I use the Sahih International and I like the original written images. Shy

It seemed quite dry and very redundant but I might give it another try and read it backward just to see if the feel is any different. Maybe someday.... but, not too soon if I feel a bout of masochism coming on. Drinking Beverage

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18-05-2014, 08:20 PM
RE: Have you read the quran
(18-05-2014 08:25 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 07:35 AM)AnderSox Wrote:  I have read about 9 chapters of it. I am excited to read more though, to get more into it. I have read the bible once though. I was lucky to find it in my language and was glad that they translate God into God, and not the arabic word for God which is Allah.

Have you read it?
I know there are hadiths about muhammad's life, which some have recommended me to read if i want to know more about his life origin. And that i can't get it from the quran.

I have read a translation of the Quran in English.

Muslims claim that God dictated the Quran directly to Muhammad in Arabic and that Arabic is the only language that does justice to the Quran.

Actually they don't. They claim an angel dictated it. But I'm sure you never took Comparative Religion or Comparative Mythology.

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19-05-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: Have you read the quran
(18-05-2014 10:58 AM)AnderSox Wrote:  Yep.

It makes the most sense to believe in to me.

It has historical person like "Cyrus the Great" in it. And faith wise, the old prophets all prophesied about Jesus. So that's why i believe in it atleast.

I don't think Islam is true, due to the pagan worship they do to Mecca. They do say its because of revelation there, but i can't quite say that i'm biting.

You should start a thread about this. About why you feel Christianity is more logical than the other religions or than no religion at all.
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19-05-2014, 10:10 AM
RE: Have you read the quran
(18-05-2014 10:58 AM)AnderSox Wrote:  Yep.

It makes the most sense to believe in to me.

It has historical person like "Cyrus the Great" in it. And faith wise, the old prophets all prophesied about Jesus. So that's why i believe in it atleast.

I don't think Islam is true, due to the pagan worship they do to Mecca. They do say its because of revelation there, but i can't quite say that i'm biting.

Reading is one of my favorite pastimes. My life would be diminished without books.

If I were on a desert isle with no book but the Qur'an, I would use its pages for wiping my ass.

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19-05-2014, 10:51 AM
RE: Have you read the quran
I have read it extensively, and studied Islam extensively.

The Qur'an- in any language- is a maniac wrapped up in a straight-jacket and left frotting at the mouth in a rubber room.

That will be all.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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19-05-2014, 11:29 AM
RE: Have you read the quran
Nope I have not. Some of the books I have read had excerpts from it. I have not decided if I want to read it or not. I have read the bible cover to cover and most of it again via bible studies and what not before I de-converted.
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19-05-2014, 11:31 AM
Have you read the quran
(19-05-2014 10:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 10:58 AM)AnderSox Wrote:  Yep.

It makes the most sense to believe in to me.

It has historical person like "Cyrus the Great" in it. And faith wise, the old prophets all prophesied about Jesus. So that's why i believe in it atleast.

I don't think Islam is true, due to the pagan worship they do to Mecca. They do say its because of revelation there, but i can't quite say that i'm biting.

Reading is one of my favorite pastimes. My life would be diminished without books.

If I were on a desert isle with no book but the Qur'an, I would use its pages for wiping my ass.

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