Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
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24-03-2014, 08:43 AM
Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
I have ran through a couple of these forums. Allow me to give a little bit of a background. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I am here to talk about objections to God. I Believe it's a false world to only stay amongst people like you and that think only like you, which is why I'm here. I've heard basic objections to God, mostly coming from misinterpreted scriptures or just flat out not wanting to have faith in the bible, whatever the case they were never honest about there reasoning. I will be completely honest with any of you, if you will do the same for me. It is easy to place someone under a microscope without the willingness to do the same for yourselves. Those that want to have an honest conversation and can place your views under the microscope fairly along with me, will get responses. Those that want to criticize, jab or throw insults I will choose to not respond. You may not like the response, but i will respond.


**** Remember This....There are no new questions under the sun, No new Ground-breaking pieces of evidence, That will somehow unearth Christianity and destroy it****
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24-03-2014, 08:52 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 08:43 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  I have ran through a couple of these forums. Allow me to give a little bit of a background. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I am here to talk about objections to God. I Believe it's a false world to only stay amongst people like you and that think only like you, which is why I'm here. I've heard basic objections to God, mostly coming from misinterpreted scriptures or just flat out not wanting to have faith in the bible, whatever the case they were never honest about there reasoning. I will be completely honest with any of you, if you will do the same for me. It is easy to place someone under a microscope without the willingness to do the same for yourselves. Those that want to have an honest conversation and can place your views under the microscope fairly along with me, will get responses. Those that want to criticize, jab or throw insults I will choose to not respond. You may not like the response, but i will respond.


**** Remember This....There are no new questions under the sun, No new Ground-breaking pieces of evidence, That will somehow unearth Christianity and destroy it****


Yawn, so Mr Fundy please put into context killing children and slavery. Then we can get on to all the self contained contradictions and the fact that the historical record contradicts the great majority of the bible. I'm sure this will be fascinating.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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24-03-2014, 08:55 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2014 09:29 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
Quote:Yawn, so Mr Fundy please put into context killing children and slavery. Then we can get on to all the self contained contradictions and the fact that the historical record contradicts the great majority of the bible. I'm sure this will be fascinating.

Great my first reply...I'm assuming by making that assumption you have the scripture handy correct?? please list the scripture that illustrates killing and slavery...I'm assuming most of your evidence will come from the old testament...you certainly won't find any of that in the new, you also must know that when Jesus came the law that could save no one from separation with God, was then abolished or had been fulfilled....but lets start there....scriptures please
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24-03-2014, 08:58 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 08:55 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 08:52 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Yawn, so Mr Fundy please put into context killing children and slavery. Then we can get on to all the self contained contradictions and the fact that the historical record contradicts the great majority of the bible. I'm sure this will be fascinating.

Great my first reply...I'm assuming by making that assumption you have the scripture handy correct?? please list the scripture that illustrates killing and slavery...I'm assuming most of your evidence will come from the old testament...you certainly won't find any of that in the new, you also must know that when Jesus came the law that could save no one from separation with God, was then abolished or had been fulfilled....but lets start there....scriptures please

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.


Next.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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24-03-2014, 09:00 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
Tell ya what work on this one for a bit too.

25. Submission and Slavery (Ephesians 6:5-9)

5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; 6 not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. 7 With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8 knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free.

9 And, masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.

17 Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And thus I direct in all the churches. 18 Was any man called already circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? Let him not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. 20 Let each man remain in that condition in which he was called. 21 Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that. 22 For he who was called in the Lord while a slave, is the Lord’s freedman; likewise he who was called while free, is Christ’s slave. 23 You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brethren, let each man remain with God in that condition in which he was called (1 Corinthians 7:17-24).

22 Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men; 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve. 25 For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality. 4:1 Masters, grant to your slaves justice and fairness, knowing that you too have a Master in heaven (Colossians 3:22–4:1).

1 Let all who are under the yoke as slaves regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine may not be spoken against. 2 And let those who have believers as their masters not be disrespectful to them because they are brethren, but let them serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved. Teach and preach these principles (1 Timothy 6:1-2).

6 Likewise urge the young men to be sensible; 7 in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, 8 sound in speech which is beyond reproach, in order that the opponent may be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us. 9 Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, 10 not pilfering, but showing all good faith that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect (Titus 2:6-10).

18 Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable. 19 For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a man bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God. 21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps (1 Peter 2:18-21).

10 I appeal to you for my child, whom I have begotten in my imprisonment, Onesimus, 11 who formerly was useless to you, but now is useful both to you and to me. 12 And I have sent him back to you in person, that is, sending my very heart, 13 whom I wished to keep with me, that in your behalf he might minister to me in my imprisonment for the gospel; 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will. 15 For perhaps he was for this reason parted from you for a while, that you should have him back forever, 16 no longer as a slave, but more than a slave, a beloved brother, especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord. 17 If then you regard me a partner, accept him as you would me. 18 But if he has wronged you in any way, or owes you anything, charge that to my account; 19 I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand, I will repay it (lest I should mention to you that you owe to me even your own self as well) (Philemon 1:10-19).

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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24-03-2014, 09:02 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
also we need to define what a contradiction really is, just so we are not at all confused about contradition

In classical logic, a contradiction consists of a logical incompatibility between two or more propositions. A proposition is used to refer to some or all of the following: the primary bearers of truth-value, the objects of belief and other “propositional attitudes” (i.e., what is believed, doubted, etc.[1]), the referents of that-clauses and the MEANING OF SENTENCES. A contradiction is only true if the person is saying to completely different things "at the same-time". One cannot say I love milk and i hate milk in the same sentence and it be true.
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24-03-2014, 09:03 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 08:55 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  Great my first reply...I'm assuming by making that assumption you have the scripture handy correct?? please list the scripture that illustrates killing and slavery...I'm assuming most of your evidence will come from the old testament...you certainly won't find any of that in the new, you also must know that when Jesus came the law that could save no one from separation with God, was then abolished or had been fulfilled....but lets start there....scriptures please
Slavery, NT:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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24-03-2014, 09:16 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2014 09:31 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
This was your original statement "Please put into context killing children and slavery" The institutions in these verses were not caused by God or anyone in the bible for that matter. The slaves that were in Roman times were not like American slaves, these would have been people who were in debt to someone. This also would have been established by the Romans, Not the Christians. So I'm confused as to your assertion of these verses. Are you saying the bible is justifying slavery or are you saying the bible is instituting it?? Because neither are true, Paul is simply telling the slaves (debtors) to pay work with a strong attitude as they are representing God. Again these verses have nothing to do with the institution of slavery (or debt paying) rather they have everything to do with the person's heart that is in debt.

Secondly


This is a funny one. You see Paul never had children...Oneimus was a former Slave of Philemon who had ran away and Paul saught to reconcile the relationship because Philemon too was a christian...I have no idea how this pretains to child killing as Onesimus was a grown man. Again this was the roman institution of slavery




Quote:10 I appeal to you for my child, whom I have begotten in my imprisonment, Onesimus, 11 who formerly was useless to you, but now is useful both to you and to me. 12 And I have sent him back to you in person, that is, sending my very heart, 13 whom I wished to keep with me, that in your behalf he might minister to me in my imprisonment for the gospel; 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will. 15 For perhaps he was for this reason parted from you for a while, that you should have him back forever, 16 no longer as a slave, but more than a slave, a beloved brother, especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord. 17 If then you regard me a partner, accept him as you would me. 18 But if he has wronged you in any way, or owes you anything, charge that to my account; 19 I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand, I will repay it (lest I should mention to you that you owe to me even your own self as well) (Philemon 1:10-19).
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24-03-2014, 09:17 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
Ok, I'll ask honest questions. I'm not trolling or ridiculing you with these, I am genuinely curious.

1) why do you believe in ANY God?

2) How do you decide between the different religions?
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24-03-2014, 09:19 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
I am waiting on your reply
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