Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
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24-03-2014, 10:48 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:12 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:04 AM)natachan Wrote:  Subjective personal experience is insufficient evidence. The existence of consciousness is proof of nothing. This is a very weak argument.



Well what your not going to be able to do is tell me that i'm not experiencing what i'm experiencing. It doesn't have to be evidence for you, but you what your not going to be able to say is that what i'm experiencing just doesn't exist...This is also a weak argument


*you're

I'm

We certainly can dispute that you are actually experiencing what you CLAIM the experience you claim to experience actually represents.

If the sun suddenly shines on my head and heats up my hair, and I start running around frantically shouting "MY HAIR IS ON FIRE! MY HAIR IS ON FIRE!", everyone around me is perfectly within their right to dismiss me as a loon.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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24-03-2014, 10:48 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
You seem to be confused as to what "empirical evidence" is.

The happenings in your life are not empirical evidence. They are anecdotal and are sufficient enough to create the faith that you need to believe. This is the basis of faith and the belief in God.

It certainly isn't empirical evidence which is evidence that can be tested and retested and proved. Empirical evidence has predictable outcomes when given certain parameters. Life experiences have infinite possibilities and changes that occur from person to person and cannot be repeated on a consistent basis given the same situation.

You are really, really confused.

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24-03-2014, 10:48 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:40 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:37 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  Stop being disingenuous. You're here for one of two reasons: 1) troll 2) ask for evidence against God.<---- This is not true. I'm here to talk about God with you guys, i'm not asking for confrontation....if you want to believe that, you can but...But my claim is that i'm not...


Past that MY.....is said MY....Emperical evidence is The holy spirit within my life...you can't tell me that isn't the case within my life, or you are overstepping your bounds, all you can say is i have no evidence of the holy spirit within "My" life this not only speaks truth from your stand point but doesn't come into my space and tell me what it is that i'm experiencing....Please maintain fine lines as I do for you....This is MY evidence

If you want an imaginary friend, you just go right ahead.

Don't tell us that it's magic and that we have to have one, too.



If you want an imaginary friend, you just go right ahead.

Don't tell us that it's magic and that we have to have one, too. <--- Was my claim that you had to have one too??? What is your story sir??? My name is Dominique, What is yours???
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24-03-2014, 10:49 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:43 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:34 AM)natachan Wrote:  Essentially.

I saw Jesus and talked to him as a kid. I don't take this as real nor do I expect anyone else to. I made it up. It was a hallucination. Not real. Just like my jackelope probably was.

does this speak for my experience as well???

You are claiming your experience is real. How do you decide that? How do you know? My experience was VERY convincing. Still later experience and learning explains it fairly well without invoking anything extraordinary.

If you want to know why I deconverted this was it. I could find nothing that coul not be otherwise explained. I found no difference between Christianity and any other faith. Nothing.
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24-03-2014, 10:49 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:45 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:35 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  You have neither defined nor provided evidence to support your assertion that such a thing exists.

Assertions presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


You must first demonstrate that such a thing exists, define "spirit", and demonstrate with evidence that such a thing possesses such a "spirit", and demonstrate the mechanism which you claim that this "spirit" can supposedly "live within a human being".


Assertions by fiat can be dismissed by fiat.




Argumentum ad Populum. Pay no attention to the Man Behind the Curtain. See the Cat? See the Cradle?

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that many who are here once held christian beliefs.




"I believe because I believe" is not evidence.

My claim...I believe Because I speak to God. What is your story??? My name is Dominique...what is yours??

And he speaks back? I take it's just a voice in your head that nobody else can hear. Of course there is sanity in numbers. One person hears voices, and it's off to the loony bin, but lots of people say they hear voices, and surely it's something magical.

Come on man, you don't see how that's a little bit silly? I get it that there is emotional satisfaction in having a god. You get control over your life, everything goes on forever, no matter how bad things get, you always have someone big and powerful who is listening to you 24/7 and has got your back. But no matter how emotionally satisfying it may be...it's not proof of his existence.

The religion of one age, is the literary entertainment of the next.
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24-03-2014, 10:50 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:46 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:36 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  Yes.

Faith = belief with no evidence. So, yes.

So All the people that have died/are dying....have done so with absolutely no evidence that God is real??

That's what faith is, honey.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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24-03-2014, 10:52 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:14 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 09:49 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  No, not any of those things. I can explain why I don't believe very simply.

I have never heard, or been given convincing or compelling evidence to believe. That's it, and that's all.

You yourself actually do understand this concept, as you yourself (I am assuming) never heard, or have been given convincing evidence to believe in Vishnu. In the same way you remain unconvinced of Vishnu, Thor, Odin, Ra, the coyote trickster god, the great juju of the mountain, the shark Aumakua, etc... In the same way you remain unconvinced in these and many more, I remain unconvinced in your thing.

That's it, and that's all.


Ok. Im not hear to try and convince you...your mind is made up....I'm hear to find out why...

We already told you. Insufficient evidence to support your wild claims. Run along now, kid.

Quote:it goes deeper than evidence...its something that is repelling you...the people...culture etc. experience. Im hear to hear your story...Your real story


*I'm

*here

You are speculating and disingenuously dismissing our honest answers by fiat. You can't read our minds.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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24-03-2014, 10:53 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:41 AM)natachan Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:31 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  It doesn't apply to you, but it does to me...That is evidence for me. But past that let just ask a basic question of all of the Christians that lived and walk the earth, do you feel that they have under gone all of this scrutiny, the persecution etc. because of a belief they have no evidence in??? just yes or no

Yes, btw. Zero objective evidence.

I'm not saying your faith doesn't work for you or give you some comfort or whatever. Good for you. But the existence of a God is a fact about the universe. You have no evidence for a universal God. Just a voice in your head.

Okay lets ask some basic questions....If I hear God's Voice, what can i Deduce from that??? A.) God is real B.) He speaks C.) he must exist in a realm that is not the same as our own etc. What happens if i tell someone of my experience?? They have a choice to believe me or to not believe me....but they can not entirely say that what i am experiencing is untrue...they can only believe it <---this is reality...If you don't believe my claim that is one thing...to talk the stance and say it is untrue is a false claim because you don't have the evidence to make that claim, I do<-----This is reality again
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24-03-2014, 10:53 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:48 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:40 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  If you want an imaginary friend, you just go right ahead.

Don't tell us that it's magic and that we have to have one, too.



If you want an imaginary friend, you just go right ahead.

Don't tell us that it's magic and that we have to have one, too. <--- Was my claim that you had to have one too??? What is your story sir??? My name is Dominique, What is yours???

In order to have the evidence we keep asking for we would have to get a holy spirit, according to you.

My story is : there is no evidence.

And my name is Thinkerbelle. Or MS Thinkerbelle to you.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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24-03-2014, 10:54 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
It appears you are looking for a story here VIN. I will give you mine in a nutshell. Born with no belief in a god, but did believe in fantasy throughout childhood (who didn't?). Raised catholic, attended sunday school and masses. Grew up, educated myself on the bible and christian teachings, and lumped all that god stuff with childhood fantasies. Concluded no evidence for a god somewhere around 6th grade.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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