Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
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24-03-2014, 11:03 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:27 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:14 AM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  There's no question that people can experience subjective brain-states that are very real to them, yet are entirely hallucinatory.

Internal, unverifiable personal experiences are unreliable because they are entirely subjective.

So basically what your telling me is I'm not allowed to tell you what I've experienced in my personal life??

No one is saying that. What we are disputing is your INTERPRETATION of what you claim your experience was. Only you haven't actually DESCRIBED what this experience was, that you claim to have happened. Bout time you did.


Quote:I'm completely rationale to debate with all of you,

I don't think that word means what you think it means.


Quote: and take your questions and answer them, yet i'm hallucinating about the holy spirit within my life...is that the size of it all??

*you're

*I'm

You have not described the experience you claim as evidence of this "spirit"-thing. "It's so because I say it's so" doesn't cut it.

And what is in question is your claim that whatever event you say you experienced actually stands as evidence of this "spirit"-thing you claim is responsible for it.








(24-03-2014 10:28 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:14 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  Ok. Im not hear to try and convince you...your mind is made up....I'm hear to find out why...it goes deeper than evidence...its something that is repelling you...the people...culture etc. experience. Im hear to hear your story...Your real story

Stop being disingenuous. You're here for one of two reasons: 1) troll 2) ask for evidence against God.

Asking for someone's "story" is a guise to say, "but yeah, how does that prove that God isn't real?"

You're using dishonest tactic to ask for a dishonest answer to an unanswerable question.

There is no amount of empirical evidence that prove God's existence or non-existence nor is any amount of anecdotal evidence sufficient to prove God's existence or non-existence. God isn't based in empirical evidence, and any Christian that says He is is lying to himself. God is based on faith which is in clear contention with empirical evidence. That being said, Christians are given faith in order to believe and establish a bridge that crosses the need for empirical evidence; thus creating the evidence that one needs to believe.

Asking this of an atheist is shifting the burden of proof. You cannot prove it just as much as they cannot disprove it, and it's disingenuous to ask that they do when you know good and well you can't sufficiency prove God's existence based purely on empirical evidence.

Stop making theists look bad with dishonest, annoying, trite tactics like this.

^^^^ And you should know that this message has been brought to you by a CALVINIST THEIST.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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24-03-2014, 11:06 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:48 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  You seem to be confused as to what "empirical evidence" is.

The happenings in your life are not empirical evidence. They are anecdotal and are sufficient enough to create the faith that you need to believe. This is the basis of faith and the belief in God.

It certainly isn't empirical evidence which is evidence that can be tested and retested and proved. Empirical evidence has predictable outcomes when given certain parameters. Life experiences have infinite possibilities and changes that occur from person to person and cannot be repeated on a consistent basis given the same situation.

You are really, really confused.

Well lets make a true claim. The findings in my life, are MY evidences...they don't have to be yours...but they are mine...what you believe about those evidences is your belief
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24-03-2014, 11:06 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:00 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  I can't give you a compelling reason to believe...that is not my job, My job is tell you of my experience, What God has done for me etc. If you choose to listen and accept it, your a bit more open that i previously precieved,

I was Christian for 30 years, so I'm definitely open minded. In fact, I'd say the fact that I was willing to change my mind in the first place makes me very open minded.


(24-03-2014 11:00 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  If not you have your reasons for not believing in Gods use of people for carrying out his plans, I'm assuming that your objections are of his people, correct??

I'm not sure where you're getting that. What do you mean?


(24-03-2014 11:00 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  Secondly if we are not sound-biting and we are looking at this scripture and it's preceding chapters, and the chapters after it you, you see that Jesus is a non-violent person...That leaves two possible deductions, Either he speaking in contradiction, which he doesn't do (in my opinion), or he is talking about a later time. I choose to later...Your turn

I'd chalk it up to the fact that the Gospels and Epistles are a bunch of different works by different authors, some made in complete absence of knowledge of the other authors, which explains whey the details don't always match up.
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24-03-2014, 11:07 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:29 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:15 AM)=jesse= Wrote:  I'll go ahead and ask some questions- it's the interwebs and a forum...so why not?

In medieval times, the Church would sell indulgences for money. This amounted to paying for days remission from purgatory. The church literally sold signed certificates. In 1903, Pope Pius X was able to calculate the number of days remission from purgatory that each rank in the heirarchy was entitled to grant. Cardinals got 200 days, archbishops got 100. Poor bishops only got 50. Can the Church sell anything else? Even though I'm not a believer, can I buy time off from Hell? Or can I pay to have someone released from Hell? Can I buy my way, or somebody elses way into Heaven?

Pope Benedict XVI abolished limbo. Does that mean all babies who have been suffering there for centuries floated off to Heaven? Or did they stay, and only babies that died after the Pope abolished it got to go to Heaven? Or were earlier Popes wrong, despite their infallibility?




I am not catholic, that is a catholic belief. The catholic church, ruled my religious fore-fathers has heretics and killed them. So I'm not going to answer for what they have done in the Name of God, that is question a catholic must answer

So what are you. This is something you should have introduced in your first post.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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24-03-2014, 11:07 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:54 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:47 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  Is the devil real??

Is God?

your questions certainly assume they both exist
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24-03-2014, 11:07 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:06 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:48 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  You seem to be confused as to what "empirical evidence" is.

The happenings in your life are not empirical evidence. They are anecdotal and are sufficient enough to create the faith that you need to believe. This is the basis of faith and the belief in God.

It certainly isn't empirical evidence which is evidence that can be tested and retested and proved. Empirical evidence has predictable outcomes when given certain parameters. Life experiences have infinite possibilities and changes that occur from person to person and cannot be repeated on a consistent basis given the same situation.

You are really, really confused.

Well lets make a true claim. The findings in my life, are MY evidences...they don't have to be yours...but they are mine...what you believe about those evidences is your belief

That's fine. In fact, that's exactly what I said.

But that isn't empirical evidence. That's anecdotal and is only valid to one person - yourself.

Edit: And that claim isn't "true". It's "true" for you... that certainly doesn't make it "true" in a whole sense.

For the last time, stop being disingenuous.

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24-03-2014, 11:08 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:06 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:48 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  You seem to be confused as to what "empirical evidence" is.

The happenings in your life are not empirical evidence. They are anecdotal and are sufficient enough to create the faith that you need to believe. This is the basis of faith and the belief in God.

It certainly isn't empirical evidence which is evidence that can be tested and retested and proved. Empirical evidence has predictable outcomes when given certain parameters. Life experiences have infinite possibilities and changes that occur from person to person and cannot be repeated on a consistent basis given the same situation.

You are really, really confused.

Well lets make a true claim. The findings in my life, are MY evidences...they don't have to be yours...but they are mine...what you believe about those evidences is your belief

And they might be perfectly good evidence FOR YOU. That doesn't convince anyone else or make what you believe true.
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24-03-2014, 11:08 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
"My job is tell you of my experience, What God has done for me etc. If you choose to listen and accept it, your a bit more open that i previously precieved,"

That's a bit of an unfair statement. Listen and accepting doesn't make you more open. If anything it makes you more gullible. It can make you irresponsible.

We can listen all we want, but not accepting it doesn't make us close minded or unreasonable. I can tell you all day about how the Easter Bunny, no joke, came into my room, gave me chocolate eggs, and we played Gears of War till the crack of dawn. Don't accept it? Well I guess you're not as open as I perceived.

If you do accept it...then...yikes.

The religion of one age, is the literary entertainment of the next.
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24-03-2014, 11:10 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:55 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:17 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  Salvation is not by faith alone, 90% of the time it starts out as something uncontrollable that happens in your life, and your left to look up at God and question if is he is there. The ones that honestly want him to be involved in there lives, I mean honestly not giving him a half chance, I mean giving him the full opportunity, He meets. Right then and there and that experience is cemented. That is how it happened for me. In that moment God met me

ORLY? What did "he" look like? What kind of car was "he" driving? How was "he"' dressed? Why didn't you drag him onto Oprah and have him do parlour tricks?

Why do you refuse to answer or even acknowledge my *honest* questions?

ORLY? What did "he" look like? What kind of car was "he" driving? How was "he"' dressed? Why didn't you drag him onto Oprah and have him do parlour tricks?

Why do you refuse to answer or even acknowledge my *honest* questions?


Good....You can't see God, I thought that was a given, but i have to state that as an obvious<---This also doesn't mean, you can't hear God, I'm sure there have been Christians on Oprah's shows that the holy spirit has used to speak. So he's probably spoke on Oprah before lol
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24-03-2014, 11:11 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:07 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:54 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Is God?

your questions certainly assume they both exist

No, they don't. I'm just saying that you haven't proven God does. You're putting the cart ahead of the horse, here.
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