Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
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24-03-2014, 11:12 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:56 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:47 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  Is the devil real??

Why a question to a question? I don't think god or the devil are real things. Do you feel that the devil has influence in your life or not?

So why are you asking me does the devil communicate, you don't even believe he exists...I'm not understanding this line of questioning
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24-03-2014, 11:12 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:03 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:48 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  *you're

I'm

We certainly can dispute that you are actually experiencing what you CLAIM the experience you claim to experience actually represents.

If the sun suddenly shines on my head and heats up my hair, and I start running around frantically shouting "MY HAIR IS ON FIRE! MY HAIR IS ON FIRE!", everyone around me is perfectly within their right to dismiss me as a loon.

you can dispute it, and say it isn't true but that would require some evidence that God doesn't exist to say holistically that your dispute is true. If you don't believe it that's one thing, but to say I'm lying or I'm not telling the truth, you can't make that claim...That's just reality people. I can make the claim The holy spirit exists in my life, because its my life lol what you believe about my assertion is your belief, but it is that....you belief

So using your logic - if I came to this forum declaring my experiences with aliens from the other side of the galaxy, which are stealing my rosmary out of my garden, are real since I personally experince this? Would you just accept my accounts or question them?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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24-03-2014, 11:14 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
Sorry, there was another thing I was going to say and forgot:

(24-03-2014 11:00 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  I can't give you a compelling reason to believe...that is not my job, My job is tell you of my experience, What God has done for me etc.

That is fair, so long as you recognize that it's fair for us to not inherently assume God exists. I'm not going to try and talk you out of your belief (that almost never works in either direction; it's a rather personal journey), but do realize that if you can't demonstrate God, then any position that doesn't involve in accepting God is at least as valid.
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24-03-2014, 11:14 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:12 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:56 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Why a question to a question? I don't think god or the devil are real things. Do you feel that the devil has influence in your life or not?

So why are you asking me does the devil communicate, you don't even believe he exists...I'm not understanding this line of questioning

You said you will answer questions, sooo... does the devil, or satan, or whatever he is called interact with and decieve people?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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24-03-2014, 11:16 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:31 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:18 AM)natachan Wrote:  The difference is I am not claiming my imaginary voice is real. You are. Prove it. You are making a claim, that your voice, WHICH ONLY YOU CAN HEAR, is real and applies to everyone and the entire universe. What evidence do you have for this?

It doesn't apply to you, but it does to me...

SO you admit that your "evidence" isn't evidence at all.



Quote:That is evidence for me.

Special Pleading Fallacy. All you are doing is admitting your own very low standard of what constitutes evidence. No surprise here.


Quote: But past that let just ask a basic question of all of the Christians that lived and walk the earth,

*let's


"lived and walk" -- past/present tense problem


Argumentum Ad Populum Fallacy



Quote: do you feel that they have under gone all of this scrutiny,

WHAT "scrutiny"?


Quote:the persecution etc

You mean the Inquisition? Or perhaps something more timely, like the war on women and gays?



Quote:. because of a belief they have no evidence in??? just yes or no

NOT "just yes or no". If you and all of these other xtards supposedly have evidence, then it should be no trouble at all for you to present this mountain of evidence, right here and right now. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke. Pay no attention to the Man Behind the Curtain.

[Image: snakeoil.jpg]

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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24-03-2014, 11:17 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
lol, seems like all of us jumped on the 'acceptance' part.

It was already asked, but what is your religion? To add to it...

1. Were you born into your religion?
2. Were you a different religion, and then converted to your current?
3. Have you tried this kind of forum debate with other religions? Meaning have you gone to Muslim, Hinduism, Shinto, Cheondoism, Jainism, forums to discuss/ argue your part? Or just atheists?

The religion of one age, is the literary entertainment of the next.
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24-03-2014, 11:21 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
Okay guys... honest question. Have I ever been this deliberately vague, disingenuous, and dishonest when talking to any of you? If so, I'm sorry. I would hate myself if I ever portrayed myself and theists in this light. It's nauseating to see how theists "debate".

Facepalm

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
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24-03-2014, 11:22 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:03 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:27 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  So basically what your telling me is I'm not allowed to tell you what I've experienced in my personal life??

No one is saying that. What we are disputing is your INTERPRETATION of what you claim your experience was. Only you haven't actually DESCRIBED what this experience was, that you claim to have happened. Bout time you did.


Quote:I'm completely rationale to debate with all of you,

I don't think that word means what you think it means. <----rational


Quote: and take your questions and answer them, yet i'm hallucinating about the holy spirit within my life...is that the size of it all??

*you're

*I'm

You have not described the experience you claim as evidence of this "spirit"-thing. "It's so because I say it's so" doesn't cut it.

And what is in question is your claim that whatever event you say you experienced actually stands as evidence of this "spirit"-thing you claim is responsible for it. <---This spirit would be an actual person inside of you, it can speak to you through your thoughts, it can speak to you through your feelings, it can speak to you when something bad happens, it also can speak to you (the more useful speech) as a voice separate from your own. The voice is usually soft-spoken, and a lot of times is pointing out matters dealing with your heart, This spirit can take the voice of plenty of influential things within your life, but it is important to note, that in all of these ways it communicates it is separate from my own thought processes etc. It has an outside timing of when it chooses to speak wired with my own thoughts , but separate with its own plans, its own agenda, its own thought and speech patterns. But past all of that, a rational person can tell when something outside of himself is happening. I have gave you guys the meat, you can destroy and reduce it whichever way you want....but none of you will be able to say definitively, that this spirit isn't real within me, nor is it communicating with me.








(24-03-2014 10:28 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Stop being disingenuous. You're here for one of two reasons: 1) troll 2) ask for evidence against God.

Asking for someone's "story" is a guise to say, "but yeah, how does that prove that God isn't real?"

You're using dishonest tactic to ask for a dishonest answer to an unanswerable question.

There is no amount of empirical evidence that prove God's existence or non-existence nor is any amount of anecdotal evidence sufficient to prove God's existence or non-existence. God isn't based in empirical evidence, and any Christian that says He is is lying to himself. God is based on faith which is in clear contention with empirical evidence. That being said, Christians are given faith in order to believe and establish a bridge that crosses the need for empirical evidence; thus creating the evidence that one needs to believe.

Asking this of an atheist is shifting the burden of proof. You cannot prove it just as much as they cannot disprove it, and it's disingenuous to ask that they do when you know good and well you can't sufficiency prove God's existence based purely on empirical evidence.

Stop making theists look bad with dishonest, annoying, trite tactics like this.

^^^^ And you should know that this message has been brought to you by a CALVINIST THEIST.



Well i'm not one for labels lets go through and tackle a few of these...
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24-03-2014, 11:25 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:06 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 11:00 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  I can't give you a compelling reason to believe...that is not my job, My job is tell you of my experience, What God has done for me etc. If you choose to listen and accept it, your a bit more open that i previously precieved,

I was Christian for 30 years, so I'm definitely open minded. In fact, I'd say the fact that I was willing to change my mind in the first place makes me very open minded.


(24-03-2014 11:00 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  If not you have your reasons for not believing in Gods use of people for carrying out his plans, I'm assuming that your objections are of his people, correct??

I'm not sure where you're getting that. What do you mean?


(24-03-2014 11:00 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  Secondly if we are not sound-biting and we are looking at this scripture and it's preceding chapters, and the chapters after it you, you see that Jesus is a non-violent person...That leaves two possible deductions, Either he speaking in contradiction, which he doesn't do (in my opinion), or he is talking about a later time. I choose to later...Your turn

I'd chalk it up to the fact that the Gospels and Epistles are a bunch of different works by different authors, some made in complete absence of knowledge of the other authors, which explains whey the details don't always match up.

Two topics you opened up A.) the reasoning for you leaving the christianity B.) my favorite...the different authors and it lining up/not lining...If you put out that its not lining how because of the different authors, what is your conclusion of the other half of the story, when it does line?? How do you explain the prophesy's that have been fulfilled??
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24-03-2014, 11:27 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Okay guys... honest question. Have I ever been this deliberately vague, disingenuous, and dishonest when talking to any of you? If so, I'm sorry. I would hate myself if I ever portrayed myself and theists in this light. It's nauseating to see how theists "debate".

Facepalm

Nope, at least not from what I've seen. You're actually one of my favorite members.

Atir aissom atir imon
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