Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
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24-03-2014, 11:28 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:34 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:29 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  So, this mythical gawd creature in your OT babble, you denounce it.

No I believe the old testament couldn't save anyone,

And so unravels your edifice.

"Save"? Define. Substantiate with evidence.

The ot-babble is/was purported to be the word of this purported "god". And you claim by fiat that this supposedly all-powerful, all-knowing "god" and its "word" were and are incapable of "saving anyone". Does your supposedly all-powerful, all-knowing, vengeful and jealous "god" know that you think this? I'm quite sure that "he" will be quite displeased when "he" finds out.


Quote:God had it in place but it was not the final fulfillment in his plan.

Had WHAT in place. Have you seen this "plan"? Did "he" show it to you when "he" supposedly "talked" to you? Why didn't you drag him onto Oprah to show the world instead of greedily keeping it all to yourself. You see, you failed to think this little con game through. And we have seen it a zillion times from a zillion other trolls just like you.


Quote: There have always been atrocities committed in the name of God,

Yes, and so you claim that this all-powerful "god" was and is powerless to stop such things.



Quote: The old testament Prophets were killed because they spoke out about Israel's rejection of God...That is no secret

Story-book figures in a fairy tale book. But if such things were true, then your "all-powerful gawd" could set it all right in the blink of an eye.


But then, as my GF always says at times like when I ask why they didn't just fly The Ring on eagles to Mt Doom, there would be no story.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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24-03-2014, 11:30 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:08 AM)=jesse= Wrote:  "My job is tell you of my experience, What God has done for me etc. If you choose to listen and accept it, your a bit more open that i previously precieved,"

That's a bit of an unfair statement. Listen and accepting doesn't make you more open. If anything it makes you more gullible. It can make you irresponsible.

We can listen all we want, but not accepting it doesn't make us close minded or unreasonable. I can tell you all day about how the Easter Bunny, no joke, came into my room, gave me chocolate eggs, and we played Gears of War till the crack of dawn. Don't accept it? Well I guess you're not as open as I perceived.

If you do accept it...then...yikes.

I don't get how every time God is mentioned, Things like leprechauns, the Easter bunny etc are brought into question...A If a someone spray painted a bunny and gave him a basket that would make him the Easter bunny lol How he played gears of war with you would mean that scientifically speaking he had evolved hands that would move like humans....Since all forms of scientific evidence negate a bunny having hands, and there is no bunny no where, nor any that claim that have hands...this alone would refute your claim. How then do you apply this too God, when there is no scientific evidence that refutes the claim and when billions of people have personal experiences with him, talk to him etc...this is an unfair connection, please give me a better comparison
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24-03-2014, 11:30 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:37 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:28 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Stop being disingenuous. You're here for one of two reasons: 1) troll 2) ask for evidence against God.

Asking for someone's "story" is a guise to say, "but yeah, how does that prove that God isn't real?"

You're using dishonest tactic to ask for a dishonest answer to an unanswerable question.

There is no amount of empirical evidence that prove God's existence or non-existence nor is any amount of anecdotal evidence sufficient to prove God's existence or non-existence. God isn't based in empirical evidence, and any Christian that says He is is lying to himself. God is based on faith which is in clear contention with empirical evidence. That being said, Christians are given faith in order to believe and establish a bridge that crosses the need for empirical evidence; thus creating the evidence that one needs to believe.

Asking this of an atheist is shifting the burden of proof. You cannot prove it just as much as they cannot disprove it, and it's disingenuous to ask that they do when you know good and well you can't sufficiency prove God's existence based purely on empirical evidence.

Stop making theists look bad with dishonest, annoying, trite tactics like this.

Stop being disingenuous. You're here for one of two reasons: 1) troll 2) ask for evidence against God.<---- This is not true. I'm here to talk about God with you guys, i'm not asking for confrontation....if you want to believe that, you can but...But my claim is that i'm not...


Past that MY.....is said MY....Emperical evidence is The holy spirit within my life...you can't tell me that isn't the case within my life, or you are overstepping your bounds, all you can say is i have no evidence of the holy spirit within "My" life this not only speaks truth from your stand point but doesn't come into my space and tell me what it is that i'm experiencing....Please maintain fine lines as I do for you....This is MY evidence

[Image: Moving-The-Goalposts.jpg]


AGAIN: You claim that you experienced some even -- which you have yet to describe. Your INTERPRETATION of that claimed event is what is called into question.


ALSO: Your "evidence" is NOT "empirical". You cannot show your "evidence" to anyone else.



EMPIRICAL: capable of being verified or disproved by observation or experiment

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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24-03-2014, 11:32 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
I went back and read your OP because I wanted to be absolutely clear on your belief. You claim to believe because of personal subjective experience and because of the bible. The first is less than satisfactory but the second.... I'm sorry but what about the bible makes you think it's true?
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24-03-2014, 11:33 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:30 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 11:08 AM)=jesse= Wrote:  "My job is tell you of my experience, What God has done for me etc. If you choose to listen and accept it, your a bit more open that i previously precieved,"

That's a bit of an unfair statement. Listen and accepting doesn't make you more open. If anything it makes you more gullible. It can make you irresponsible.

We can listen all we want, but not accepting it doesn't make us close minded or unreasonable. I can tell you all day about how the Easter Bunny, no joke, came into my room, gave me chocolate eggs, and we played Gears of War till the crack of dawn. Don't accept it? Well I guess you're not as open as I perceived.

If you do accept it...then...yikes.

I don't get how every time God is mentioned, Things like leprechauns, the Easter bunny etc are brought into question...A If a someone spray painted a bunny and gave him a basket that would make him the Easter bunny lol How he played gears of war with you would mean that scientifically speaking he had evolved hands that would move like humans....Since all forms of scientific evidence negate a bunny having hands, and there is no bunny no where, nor any that claim that have hands...this alone would refute your claim. How then do you apply this too God, when there is no scientific evidence that refutes the claim and when billions of people have personal experiences with him, talk to him etc...this is an unfair connection, please give me a better comparison

But, have you been everywhere? Just because you don't see the bunny with evolved hands doesn't mean he doesn't exist! You have to look everywhere, otherwise your comment is invalid.

Atir aissom atir imon
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24-03-2014, 11:34 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2014 12:47 PM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:39 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:32 AM)=jesse= Wrote:  So not applicable because not your religion. Got it. So does that mean that the Catholics have it wrong and you've got it right?

edit: Just to clarify, when I say 'you', I don't just mean you specifically. I'm referring to anyone who believes in the exact same doctrine that you do.

This means that Catholics have killed before in the name of God. This is wrong and I will stand by that

And Protestants haven't? And xtards of every other denomination haven't? Hobo






(24-03-2014 10:45 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:35 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  You have neither defined nor provided evidence to support your assertion that such a thing exists.

Assertions presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


You must first demonstrate that such a thing exists, define "spirit", and demonstrate with evidence that such a thing possesses such a "spirit", and demonstrate the mechanism which you claim that this "spirit" can supposedly "live within a human being".


Assertions by fiat can be dismissed by fiat.




Argumentum ad Populum. Pay no attention to the Man Behind the Curtain. See the Cat? See the Cradle?

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that many who are here once held christian beliefs.




"I believe because I believe" is not evidence.

My claim...I believe Because I speak to God. What is your story??? My name is Dominique...what is yours??

I speak to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. That doesn't make it real.

Are you claiming that this thing talks back to you? Why don't you bring it on Oprah and have it do some tricks.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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24-03-2014, 11:36 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:30 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 11:08 AM)=jesse= Wrote:  "My job is tell you of my experience, What God has done for me etc. If you choose to listen and accept it, your a bit more open that i previously precieved,"

That's a bit of an unfair statement. Listen and accepting doesn't make you more open. If anything it makes you more gullible. It can make you irresponsible.

We can listen all we want, but not accepting it doesn't make us close minded or unreasonable. I can tell you all day about how the Easter Bunny, no joke, came into my room, gave me chocolate eggs, and we played Gears of War till the crack of dawn. Don't accept it? Well I guess you're not as open as I perceived.

If you do accept it...then...yikes.

I don't get how every time God is mentioned, Things like leprechauns, the Easter bunny etc are brought into question...A If a someone spray painted a bunny and gave him a basket that would make him the Easter bunny lol How he played gears of war with you would mean that scientifically speaking he had evolved hands that would move like humans....Since all forms of scientific evidence negate a bunny having hands, and there is no bunny no where, nor any that claim that have hands...this alone would refute your claim. How then do you apply this too God, when there is no scientific evidence that refutes the claim and when billions of people have personal experiences with him, talk to him etc...this is an unfair connection, please give me a better comparison

Holy crap! You are neck deep in the self righteous, indocrination doo doo to even continue reading anything you post. Also, since you just proved our point with that last desperate pitch of scientific evidence and logic (sort of), I am satisfied.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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24-03-2014, 11:36 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:12 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 11:03 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  you can dispute it, and say it isn't true but that would require some evidence that God doesn't exist to say holistically that your dispute is true. If you don't believe it that's one thing, but to say I'm lying or I'm not telling the truth, you can't make that claim...That's just reality people. I can make the claim The holy spirit exists in my life, because its my life lol what you believe about my assertion is your belief, but it is that....you belief

So using your logic - if I came to this forum declaring my experiences with aliens from the other side of the galaxy, which are stealing my rosmary out of my garden, are real since I personally experince this? Would you just accept my accounts or question them?

Well lets deduce a few things. Your the only one stating the above claim...There are billions of people who have evidence of God within there life...thats first. Secondly There are people who claim to have seen aliens, do they exist I couldn't tell you....But if you claimed aliens existed in your experience, and this really is the whole point...I could have a disbelief of what your saying, a strong disbelief at that, but could i say definitively that your experience didn't happen...you could be lying for all i know, but what good does it do for me to at least not listen to your story and decide for myself, assuming of course that the aliens actually did take the rosemary from you?? I would love to hear why it is that they can't get enough of that rosemary..whats in it???
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24-03-2014, 11:38 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Okay guys... honest question. Have I ever been this deliberately vague, disingenuous, and dishonest when talking to any of you? If so, I'm sorry. I would hate myself if I ever portrayed myself and theists in this light. It's nauseating to see how theists "debate".

Facepalm

Not that I know of. Although, I haven't talked directly to you as much on the topic. While we disagree, we both admit where the fundamental differences are in our assumptions and we aren't dicks about it to each other.

I appreciate that.
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24-03-2014, 11:38 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:14 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 11:12 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  So why are you asking me does the devil communicate, you don't even believe he exists...I'm not understanding this line of questioning

You said you will answer questions, sooo... does the devil, or satan, or whatever he is called interact with and decieve people?


I'm believe he does
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