Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
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24-03-2014, 11:49 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
Well I need to catch some sleep before I work tonight. Try not to kill the new chew toy too quickly.

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24-03-2014, 11:49 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2014 11:52 AM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:48 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:40 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  If you want an imaginary friend, you just go right ahead.

Don't tell us that it's magic and that we have to have one, too.



If you want an imaginary friend, you just go right ahead.


Don't tell us that it's magic and that we have to have one, too. <--- Was my claim that you had to have one too???

Your claim is this:

(24-03-2014 08:43 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  I have ran through a couple of these forums. Allow me to give a little bit of a background. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I am here to talk about objections to God. I Believe it's a false world to only stay amongst people like you and that think only like you, which is why I'm here. I've heard basic objections to God, mostly coming from misinterpreted scriptures or just flat out not wanting to have faith in the bible, whatever the case they were never honest about there reasoning. I will be completely honest with any of you, if you will do the same for me. It is easy to place someone under a microscope without the willingness to do the same for yourselves. Those that want to have an honest conversation and can place your views under the microscope fairly along with me, will get responses. Those that want to criticize, jab or throw insults I will choose to not respond. You may not like the response, but i will respond.


**** Remember This....There are no new questions under the sun, No new Ground-breaking pieces of evidence, That will somehow unearth Christianity and destroy it****

And YES, that we should believe in your imaginary friend is implied in the above.


Quote:What is your story sir??? My name is Dominique, What is yours???

My name is Taqiyya Mockingbird. What's your point.






(24-03-2014 10:43 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:34 AM)natachan Wrote:  Essentially.

I saw Jesus and talked to him as a kid. I don't take this as real nor do I expect anyone else to. I made it up. It was a hallucination. Not real. Just like my jackelope probably was.

does this speak for my experience as well???

BINGO!

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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24-03-2014, 11:51 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:39 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 11:14 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Sorry, there was another thing I was going to say and forgot:


That is fair, so long as you recognize that it's fair for us to not inherently assume God exists. I'm not going to try and talk you out of your belief (that almost never works in either direction; it's a rather personal journey), but do realize that if you can't demonstrate God, then any position that doesn't involve in accepting God is at least as valid.


It's not for me to reveal God to you, God does that. But yes you are correct in other assertion can be at least just as valid...you are correct in your logic

If God reveals himself to me in a public bathroom, do I need an adult?

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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24-03-2014, 11:52 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:16 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:31 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  It doesn't apply to you, but it does to me...

SO you admit that your "evidence" isn't evidence at all. <---My evidence is MY Evidence, its really not that hard...somehow you think your like gonna one up or something...like do you speak to christians at all, do you actually talk to them face to face or are you on the internet all day arguing with them?? There people, they have feelings...there not objects....you should try and have conversations with them...be better than the believer Smile



Quote:That is evidence for me.

Special Pleading Fallacy. All you are doing is admitting your own very low standard of what constitutes evidence. No surprise here. <---Does this disprove my claim???


Quote: But past that let just ask a basic question of all of the Christians that lived and walk the earth,

*let's


"lived and walk" -- past/present tense problem


Argumentum Ad Populum Fallacy



Quote: do you feel that they have under gone all of this scrutiny,

WHAT "scrutiny"?


Quote:the persecution etc

You mean the Inquisition? Or perhaps something more timely, like the war on women and gays?



Quote:. because of a belief they have no evidence in??? just yes or no

NOT "just yes or no". If you and all of these other xtards supposedly have evidence, then it should be no trouble at all for you to present this mountain of evidence, right here and right now. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke. Pay no attention to the Man Behind the Curtain....<------Evidence------> Holy spirt

[Image: snakeoil.jpg]


Do you not know how many christians were killed under Nero etc?? and yes the Spanish inquisition etc. Anyone who did not believe in the Catholic church was killed and that would mean my protestant religious fore-fathers as well...they were heretics.
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24-03-2014, 11:55 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:39 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 11:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Okay guys... honest question. Have I ever been this deliberately vague, disingenuous, and dishonest when talking to any of you? If so, I'm sorry. I would hate myself if I ever portrayed myself and theists in this light. It's nauseating to see how theists "debate".

Facepalm

Come on KC, calling this farce a 'debate' doesn't do it justice; it's more akin to shitting on a piece of toast and calling it 'lunch'. The new chew toy here is completely out of his depth, and the most humorous part of all is how little he realizes that. He should be in the kiddy pool with water-wings and adult supervision, instead he's thrown himself out into the middle of the Pacific...



Gotta love the name calling, If it really wasn't a debate at all, then you would have never responded...if it was really just that low and so beneath you, you wouldn't have even wasted your time with the insults. But thank you
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24-03-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:40 AM)=jesse= Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 11:30 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  I don't get how every time God is mentioned, Things like leprechauns, the Easter bunny etc are brought into question...A If a someone spray painted a bunny and gave him a basket that would make him the Easter bunny lol How he played gears of war with you would mean that scientifically speaking he had evolved hands that would move like humans....Since all forms of scientific evidence negate a bunny having hands, and there is no bunny no where, nor any that claim that have hands...this alone would refute your claim. How then do you apply this too God, when there is no scientific evidence that refutes the claim and when billions of people have personal experiences with him, talk to him etc...this is an unfair connection, please give me a better comparison

I think you missed my point there. But lets go off that anyway. All forms of scientific evidence negate a bunny having hands, and there is no bunny nowhere, nor any that claim that have hands, refutes my claim.

1. It was sarcasm. I obviously didn't play gears of war with a bunny. And you didn't accept it, which means you're not as open as I perceived Big Grin

2. Magical egg rabbits and leprechauns come into play because they are about as real as any god, including yours.

3. Scientific evidence negates magic and supernatural phenomena. So...adios Yahweh.

Does scientific evidence negate a creation of a cosmos??? <---Supernatural Phenomena, you forgot that one buddy...but adidos
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24-03-2014, 11:58 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
Quote:Side note- I'm having a pretty good time right now. This is the first debate I've been in on this forum.

This is rather amusing. A good refreshment getting back from spring break.

Quote:..I'm not hear to keep arguing i would actual like to hear one of you guy's story for once

Many of us have made it clear. Abundantly so. So perhaps I should be more specific so you can understand me at least.

I'm 27, and I deconverted around 20. At the time I had been a classical archeology major at university. I spent a great deal of time studying old church records and documents. I learned about ancient people and their texts. I learned that the gospels were written by fallible men with very clear agendas who would be appalled at how most people today interpret then. I learned that thee was NOTHING to differentiate the gospels (and the non-canonical or heretical gospels) from other writings of the time.

I also learned that Jesus was not the only such figure in the area at the time. There was no empirical evidence to suggest tha he was in any way special. Indeed the evidence for specifically his existence is spotty at best.

Hopefully this helps you understand. I don't think you're willfully trolling (yet, I could change my mind).
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24-03-2014, 11:59 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:41 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:42 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  MY delusions???

Your delusions. The fairy tales you believe in. Yes.


Quote: I thought i said it was the choice that divides?? i thought i said that..

The choice to embrace a delusion. Yes. What part of that do you fail to grasp.


Quote:.but we can go back and forth in this way or we can choose to have an actual conversation its up too you..

*to you


Oh, we've only just begun. An actual conversation, though, is that you would address the points I have raised (you called them "your objections to Gawd") -- HONESTLY -- like YOU SAID YOU WOULD IN YOUR OP.



Quote:..I'm not hear to keep arguing i would actual like to hear one of you guy's story for once

*here

*arguing. I...

*actually


We are not here to tell stories or to play into your confirmation bias of your strawman delusion that we disbelieve because of some perceived slight from another xtard. We know your con games well, and that is one of the first that novice apolotards like you try to pull out and throw at us. Do you really think we were born yesterday?

You're probably what 16??
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24-03-2014, 12:01 PM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 11:57 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 11:40 AM)=jesse= Wrote:  I think you missed my point there. But lets go off that anyway. All forms of scientific evidence negate a bunny having hands, and there is no bunny nowhere, nor any that claim that have hands, refutes my claim.

1. It was sarcasm. I obviously didn't play gears of war with a bunny. And you didn't accept it, which means you're not as open as I perceived Big Grin

2. Magical egg rabbits and leprechauns come into play because they are about as real as any god, including yours.

3. Scientific evidence negates magic and supernatural phenomena. So...adios Yahweh.

Does scientific evidence negate a creation of a cosmos??? <---Supernatural Phenomena, you forgot that one buddy...but adidos

Ok. Provide evidence of supernatural phenomina.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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24-03-2014, 12:01 PM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2014 12:06 PM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:53 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:41 AM)natachan Wrote:  Yes, btw. Zero objective evidence.

I'm not saying your faith doesn't work for you or give you some comfort or whatever. Good for you. But the existence of a God is a fact about the universe. You have no evidence for a universal God. Just a voice in your head.

Okay lets ask some basic questions....If I hear God's Voice,


So you come out with your claim that you "hear gawd's voice". So tell us, are you claiming that you actually hear an external voice through your ears, i.e., one that, if I were in the room with you, I could hear as well, or are you claiming that you "hear" an "inner voice", sort of like what Buddhists refer to as "The Drunken Monkey"?




Quote:what can i Deduce from that???

Depending on your answer to the question above, there is PLENTY that we and psychiatrists can deduce from that.


Quote: A.) God is real B.) He speaks C.) he must exist in a realm that is not the same as our own etc.

Or D) you are hallucinating or E) you cannot tell the difference between your mental fantasies and reality or F) you are making all of this shit up


Quote:What happens if i tell someone of my experience?? They have a choice to believe me or to not believe me..


False Choice Fallacy


Quote:..but they can not entirely say that what i am experiencing is untrue..

We can dispute your conclusion, which is what is happening here.





Quote:.they can only believe it

Incorrect, for the above reasons.


Quote:<---this is reality.

Demonstrating that you have no idea what reality really is.



Quote:..If you don't believe my claim that is one thing.

True.

Quote:..to talk the stance

*take

Quote:and say it is untrue is a false claim because you don't have the evidence to make that claim, I do<-----This is reality again

Again you are arguing a straw man. What we are disputing and doubting is your CONCLUSIONS.







OH, and per your PM:

vin2890 Wrote:Hello you seem to have alot to say on this forum...Without the insults can you have a conversation lets talk



There is nothing we have to say to each other that needs to stay in private.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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