Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-03-2014, 09:45 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2014 09:57 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
Quote:How, specifically, does God interact with humans?

Also, my second question is unanswered. There are other religions that claim connections or interaction with the divine. Buddhism, IIRC does this. So do the ancient religions of Rome and Greece.


Answer A.) He actually speaks lol in a number of different ways. This would be directly to you, directly to someone else, his word etc. There is a spirit that lives within each follower of Christ that is how we know God exists. Otherwise we would come to the conclusion that there is no God.

B.) Buddhism is a nonthiestic religion, so that would be impossible for them to interact with the divine. The ancient religions believed in more than one God, they also do not have the holy spirit, which is the way in which God interacts with us. He does it through a spirit, something non visible that lives within you, very simple. Everyone doesn't have it which is why you guys question its existence, Rightfully so if i had no evidence of something i wouldn't believe it either
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes vin2890's post
24-03-2014, 09:45 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
Question: Is salvation by faith alone?

Atir aissom atir imon
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-03-2014, 09:46 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 09:16 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  This was your original statement "Please put into context killing children and slavery" The institutions in these verses were not caused by God or anyone in the bible for that matter. The slaves that were in Roman times were not like American slaves, these would have been people who were in debt to someone. This also would have been established by the Romans, Not the Christians. So I'm confused as to your assertion of these verses. Are you saying the bible is justifying slavery or are you saying the bible is instituting it?? Because neither are true, Paul is simply telling the slaves (debtors) to pay work with a strong attitude as they are representing God. Again these verses have nothing to do with the institution of slavery (or debt paying) rather they have everything to do with the person's heart that is in debt.

Secondly


This is a funny one. You see Paul never had children...Oneimus was a former Slave of Philemon who had ran away and Paul saught to reconcile the relationship because Philemon too was a christian...I have no idea how this pretains to child killing as Onesimus was a grown man. Again this was the roman institution of slavery




Quote:10 I appeal to you for my child, whom I have begotten in my imprisonment, Onesimus, 11 who formerly was useless to you, but now is useful both to you and to me. 12 And I have sent him back to you in person, that is, sending my very heart, 13 whom I wished to keep with me, that in your behalf he might minister to me in my imprisonment for the gospel; 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will. 15 For perhaps he was for this reason parted from you for a while, that you should have him back forever, 16 no longer as a slave, but more than a slave, a beloved brother, especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord. 17 If then you regard me a partner, accept him as you would me. 18 But if he has wronged you in any way, or owes you anything, charge that to my account; 19 I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand, I will repay it (lest I should mention to you that you owe to me even your own self as well) (Philemon 1:10-19).

Ok thanks Thumbsup I can now just walk away. You have excused slavery in favor of your imaginary friend. You are officially morally bankrupt. Everyone else feel free to rip into this one I'm out.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 10 users Like Revenant77x's post
24-03-2014, 09:49 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 09:39 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  I know you guys have your reasons, I'm not knocking that i would love to hear the actual reasons that started it, things like a bad conversation with a pastor, being forced to go to church by parents, things christians have done to you guys etc.

No, not any of those things. I can explain why I don't believe very simply.

I have never heard, or been given convincing or compelling evidence to believe. That's it, and that's all.

You yourself actually do understand this concept, as you yourself (I am assuming) never heard, or have been given convincing evidence to believe in Vishnu. In the same way you remain unconvinced of Vishnu, Thor, Odin, Ra, the coyote trickster god, the great juju of the mountain, the shark Aumakua, etc... In the same way you remain unconvinced in these and many more, I remain unconvinced in your thing.

That's it, and that's all.

...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Raptor Jesus's post
24-03-2014, 09:53 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2014 10:00 AM by Reltzik.)
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 08:43 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  I have ran through a couple of these forums. Allow me to give a little bit of a background. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I am here to talk about objections to God. I Believe it's a false world to only stay amongst people like you and that think only like you, which is why I'm here. I've heard basic objections to God, mostly coming from misinterpreted scriptures or just flat out not wanting to have faith in the bible, whatever the case they were never honest about there reasoning. I will be completely honest with any of you, if you will do the same for me. It is easy to place someone under a microscope without the willingness to do the same for yourselves. Those that want to have an honest conversation and can place your views under the microscope fairly along with me, will get responses. Those that want to criticize, jab or throw insults I will choose to not respond. You may not like the response, but i will respond.


**** Remember This....There are no new questions under the sun, No new Ground-breaking pieces of evidence, That will somehow unearth Christianity and destroy it****

I'd say the most urgent line of questioning is the matter of coexistence. Sure, we can debate the veracity of the religion (whichever version of it you focus on). MAYBE one of us will convince the other. But until that happens, or if it doesn't happen at all, can we live in the same society together, without us abusing one another in the name of these differences?

Some examples of what I would find objectionable, and which have cropped up often enough among Christianity that I am no longer surprised to find the Christians doing them. Rather than assume one way or another with you, I'll simply list them out there and let you say how applicable they are to you:

Violence or persecution of others on the basis of your religious beliefs. Examples of this include:
* Persecution of LGBT etc persons, such as what we're seeing in Uganda.
* Vigilante persecution of the same.
* Vigilante persecution of other races, such as done by the KKK.
* Gender- or sex-based oppression.
* Persecution based on religious beliefs, eg, arbitrary firing of atheists, barring them from holding public positions, barring them from offering testimony in court, using absence of religion as a reason to remove custody of their children, etc.
* Bombing of abortion clinics.

Use of governmental power to compel or advance your religion, including:
* Appropriation of taxpayer funds to explicitly religious institutions.
* Compelling attendance of religious services.
* Making religion a requirement to receive government services.
* Promotion within governmental organizations (eg, the military) on the basis of religious belief.
* Misappropriation of taxpayer funds, or publicly owned lands, facilities, or equipment, in favor of a particular religion's narrative, eg, nativity scenes.
* Basing public policy on religious objectives, eg, foreign policy to ensure Israeli control of the West Bank and through that (somehow) the Second Coming.
* Basing public policy on religious assumptions, eg, refusing to do research on AIDS on the grounds that it is God's punishment to sinners and should not be tampered with.
* Compelling prayer, or attendance of prayer, or reading or viewing of religious materials, by a government official (eg in a public school classroom or event, backed by truancy laws) or simply prominently displayed in a location that people are legally compelled to be (eg, scripture on display in a courtroom), or in a governmental function which they are legally entitled to participate (eg, legislative sessions).

Public defamations, false witness, etc, on an obstentiously religious basis, especially when deployed in such a manner as to shift public opinion. This includes:
* Mischaracterizations about the morality, or lack thereof, of atheists.
* Demonstrably false statements on the subject of contraception and safe-sex practice.

And finally, support of any of the above, be it financial, political, moral, labor, or tacit.

Does any of this apply to you? I don't necessarily assume that any of this applies to you. Nor do I assume it doesn't. If I were assuming, I wouldn't be asking.

I don't object to a debate on the claims of your religion itself, but I anticipate that neither of us would outright convince the other, so first I'd like some ground rules on how to get along without that consensus.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Reltzik's post
24-03-2014, 09:54 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
And to be clear, I'm not asking you to describe the "god" you believe in, to describe "Jesus", or "Yahweh". We already know the bible, quoting passages about "Jesus", or "Yahweh" would be wasteful of time, and only tells us about aspects for those particular "gods", but not what a "god" in fact is.

What I am actually asking you to describe is, what is a "god"? What does that even mean?

That may sound like an obvious question, but it actually is not. Before I could care about anything you say about your particular "god" concept, I need to understand what it is.


I think that is a fairly Good question. Much of what God is can not be defined humanly. You can not place a finite space on an infinite God. All I know about God is what he has revealed to us about him, and the things that he hasn't revealed its possible we probably just wouldn't understand, nor can we demand that of him because he is a our creator, not the other way around. But if i had to define him in a space God is love. God has revealed that about himself time and time again
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-03-2014, 09:54 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 09:45 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
Quote:How, specifically, does God interact with humans?

Also, my second question is unanswered. There are other religions that claim connections or interaction with the divine. Buddhism, IIRC does this. So do the ancient religions of Rome and Greece.


Answer A.) He actually speaks lol in a number of different ways. This would be directly to you, directly to someone else, his word etc. There is a spirit that lives within each follower of Christ that is how we know God exists. Otherwise we would come to the conclusion that there is no God.

B.) Buddhism is a nonthiestic religion, so that would be impossible for them to interact with the divine. The ancient religions believed in more than one God, they also do not have the holy spirit, which is the way in which God interacts with us. He does it through a spirit, something non visible that lives within you, very simple. Everyone doesn't have it which is why you guys question its existence, Rightfully so if i had no evidence of something i wouldn't believe it either

Essentially you're arguing from personal subjective experience? If so this is a very weak argument. The ancient gods at least had measurable real world agents, such as lightning or earthquakes that could be measured and validated. A voice in your head cannot. I believe I saw a jackelope the other day, but I have no photos and no corroborating witnesses or evidence. As such I doubt what I think I saw and expect you to doubt it as well. If I said I saw an alligator and presented you with a photo of me and the alligator and six over witnesses in the area alligators are known to live we can be pretty sure I saw an alligator.

You must present something else to be convincing.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes natachan's post
24-03-2014, 09:55 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2014 10:01 AM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 08:43 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  I have ran through a couple of these forums.

*run


"Run through", or "been run off"?


Quote:Allow me to give a little bit of a background. I am a believer in Jesus Christ.

What is that?

Quote: I am here to talk about objections to God.

What's a god?

How can someone have "objections" to something that has not been demonstrated to exist?

How can someone have "objections" to something they don't believe is real?



Quote: I Believe it's a false world to only stay amongst people like you and that think only like you, which is why I'm here.

Ah, the battle cry of the troll.

Quote: I've heard basic objections to God,

Have you? Have you ever demonstrated to anyone via sufficient evidence that such a thing actually exists? Can you do so? If not, then there is no "objection" such a thing. Asserting the existence of such a thing is "Not Even Wrong" (link). You must first start by demonstrating with sufficient evidence that such a thing exists.


Quote: mostly coming from misinterpreted scriptures or just flat out not wanting to have faith in the bible,

Strawman much?


Quote: whatever the case they were never honest about there reasoning.


Mind-reading Fallacy much?

How honest is it to claim something exists by fiat, simply because you want to believe it exists.


Quote: I will be completely honest with any of you, if you will do the same for me.

I already see evidence to the contrary.


Quote:It is easy to place someone under a microscope without the willingness to do the same for yourselves.

Tu Quoque.

Quote: Those that want to have an honest conversation and can place your views under the microscope fairly along with me, will get responses.

There is no "atheist view". And oh, look-- yet another attempt to shift the burden of proof. You came in here declaring your belief in your mythical jeebus and gawd-characters. YOU defend THEM. We are under no obligation to defend, present, declare, or even HAVE views.


Quote: Those that want to criticize, jab or throw insults I will choose to not respond. You may not like the response, but i will respond.


Um champ, "placing your views under a microscope" IS criticism. And you don't get to dictate to this forum how members will interact with you.


Quote:**** Remember This....There are no new questions under the sun, No new Ground-breaking pieces of evidence, That will somehow unearth Christianity and destroy it****

Nothing there to remember. Your assertion by fiat does not make that tripe true.

[Image: i-451f5356ad30f214361cd29fda6a4963-debatingrules.jpeg]

[Image: funny-pictures-auto-comics-logic-371546.jpeg]

(24-03-2014 09:39 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  I know you guys have your reasons, I'm not knocking that i would love to hear the actual reasons that started it, things like a bad conversation with a pastor, being forced to go to church by parents, things christians have done to you guys etc.

[Image: Scarecrow.jpg]

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Taqiyya Mockingbird's post
24-03-2014, 09:56 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 09:43 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 09:28 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  OMG HTML BBCode isn't hard.

Let me go back and fix this debacle.

Edit: Okay, done. Stop erasing the opening tags.

Rolleyes

Tomato tomahto

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-03-2014, 09:57 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
STOP ERASING THE QUOTE TAGS... jeezum

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kingschosen's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: