Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
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24-03-2014, 10:08 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:06 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Vin2890, yes, you. I'm talking to you.

You are erasing the opening quote tags... for whatever ridiculous reason... and you're screwing up the readability of entire posts.

Stop.

Look... you can delete and modify anything that is written in red that I have in this example. The text in blue... LEAVE IT ALONE. Do not modify it. You are erasing the opening tags and therefore making a mess for me to clean up. You're doing it with every post. Stop.

[quote='kingschosen' pid='527790' dateline='1395674911' ]
OMG HTML isn't hard.

Let me go back and fix this debacle.

Edit: Okay, done. Stop erasing the opening tags.

[ /quote]

ok
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24-03-2014, 10:10 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
Firstly, stop erasing the opening half of the quote tags.

(24-03-2014 10:00 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  Of course...This would be the evidence of the holy spirit. Gods spirit living within a human being. Every christian can tell you its there, Everyone doesn't have it, I understand it may sound like bull crap, but just as sure I'm talking to you at this moment, He can do the same thing. This is my evidence....The Holy spirit

You are assuming that. You have to assume the holy spirit exists in order for it to be proof of God. It's circular. What evidence do you have that doesn't require you to assume he exists in the first place?


(24-03-2014 10:04 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  Very Good Matthew 10: Jesus Christ is speaking about the coming day of Judgement...His future judgement. He is not talking about his physical reign.

Read Matthew 10 in it's entirety. It doesn't say that. You're assuming that to maintain a narrative:

Quote:Jesus Sends Out the Twelve

10 Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.

2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— 10 no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. 11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

16 “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24 “The student is not above the teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25 It is enough for students to be like their teachers, and servants like their masters. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebul, how much more the members of his household!

26 “So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.[b] 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]

37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

40 “Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. 41 Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward. 42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.”

He sends them out, but he doesn't say this applies to the final judgment.
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24-03-2014, 10:10 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 09:59 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 09:54 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  I think that is a fairly Good question. Much of what God is can not be defined humanly. You can not place a finite space on an infinite God. All I know about God is what he has revealed to us about him, and the things that he hasn't revealed its possible we probably just wouldn't understand, nor can we demand that of him because he is a our creator, not the other way around. But if i had to define him in a space God is love. God has revealed that about himself time and time again

Then how do you explain this?

http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2009/0...g-a-child/

Sounds to me like the boy was saved. I don't know where your going with this or what this could prove or disprove...I guess your going to have to go into further detail about what your concluding about this photo....could this be evidence of God's existence/non-existence??? I don't think so
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24-03-2014, 10:11 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:08 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:06 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Vin2890, yes, you. I'm talking to you.

You are erasing the opening quote tags... for whatever ridiculous reason... and you're screwing up the readability of entire posts.

Stop.

Look... you can delete and modify anything that is written in red that I have in this example. The text in blue... LEAVE IT ALONE. Do not modify it. You are erasing the opening tags and therefore making a mess for me to clean up. You're doing it with every post. Stop.

[quote='kingschosen' pid='527790' dateline='1395674911' ]
OMG HTML isn't hard.

Let me go back and fix this debacle.

Edit: Okay, done. Stop erasing the opening tags.

[ /quote]

ok

Why was this so hard to grasp?

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24-03-2014, 10:11 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2014 10:17 AM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 09:45 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
Quote:How, specifically, does God interact with humans?

Also, my second question is unanswered. There are other religions that claim connections or interaction with the divine. Buddhism, IIRC does this. So do the ancient religions of Rome and Greece.


Answer A.) He actually speaks lol in a number of different ways. This would be directly to you, directly to someone else, his word etc. There is a spirit that lives within each follower of Christ that is how we know God exists. Otherwise we would come to the conclusion that there is no God.

What is a "spirit". Please pull one out and show it to us, that we may examine it, poke it with needles, x-rays, scalpels, etc.

And since you claim that this god-thing you propose can appear and speak to us, please arrange for it to appear on Oprah and perform various amazing parlour tricks. My favorite would be for it to conjure a planet somewhere between here and the Moon, so that we can send up a shuttle to verify that it really exists and isn't an illusion, poke around on it, kick the tires, declare mineral and water rights, make it the 51st US State, etc.


Quote:B.) Buddhism is a nonthiestic religion, so that would be impossible for them to interact with the divine.

At least that much is true.


But again, you are using this word "the divine" as if it had some meaning. You have neither defined this "the divine", nor demonstrated through sufficient evidence that such a thing exists. You must start there before you an even use it in a sentence.

Quote: The ancient religions believed in more than one God,


Um Buddhism didn't and doesn't. And you have not defined what a "god" is.


Quote: they also do not have the holy spirit,

Define and provide evidence to support assertion.

Quote: which is the way in which God interacts with us.

You have neither defined nor demonstrated such a thing to exist. Start there.


Quote:He does it through a spirit,

Define. Provide sufficient evidence. Your assertions do not make anything true or real.


Quote: something non visible that lives within you, very simple.

You have not demonstrated that such a thing exists.


Quote: Everyone doesn't have it which is why you guys question its existence,

You cannot read our minds. Straw man.


Quote:Rightfully so if i had no evidence of something i wouldn't believe it either

Then you claim that there is evidence of each of the objects you claim. Present it.



(24-03-2014 08:55 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  ...I'm assuming most of your evidence will come from the old testament...you certainly won't find any of that in the new, you also must know that when Jesus came the law that could save no one from separation with God, was then abolished or had been fulfilled..



[Image: Moving-The-Goalposts.jpg]




(24-03-2014 09:02 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  also we need to define what a contradiction really is, just so we are not at all confused about contradition


*contradiction

[Image: Moving-The-Goalposts.jpg]

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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24-03-2014, 10:12 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:04 AM)natachan Wrote:  Subjective personal experience is insufficient evidence. The existence of consciousness is proof of nothing. This is a very weak argument.



Well what your not going to be able to do is tell me that i'm not experiencing what i'm experiencing. It doesn't have to be evidence for you, but you what your not going to be able to say is that what i'm experiencing just doesn't exist...This is also a weak argument
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24-03-2014, 10:12 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 09:45 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  The ancient religions believed in more than one God, they also do not have the holy spirit, which is the way in which God interacts with us. He does it through a spirit, something non visible that lives within you, very simple. Everyone doesn't have it which is why you guys question its existence, Rightfully so if i had no evidence of something i wouldn't believe it either

You just answered your own question. Some people do not have an invisible spirit in them, therefore they do not believe in invisible spirits. Also, some people have not discovered their inner Thetan, and therefore are not Scientologists.

I include myself in both groups.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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24-03-2014, 10:13 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Why was this so hard to grasp?
Because he's a theist, duh! Angel

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24-03-2014, 10:14 AM
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 09:49 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 09:39 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  I know you guys have your reasons, I'm not knocking that i would love to hear the actual reasons that started it, things like a bad conversation with a pastor, being forced to go to church by parents, things christians have done to you guys etc.

No, not any of those things. I can explain why I don't believe very simply.

I have never heard, or been given convincing or compelling evidence to believe. That's it, and that's all.

You yourself actually do understand this concept, as you yourself (I am assuming) never heard, or have been given convincing evidence to believe in Vishnu. In the same way you remain unconvinced of Vishnu, Thor, Odin, Ra, the coyote trickster god, the great juju of the mountain, the shark Aumakua, etc... In the same way you remain unconvinced in these and many more, I remain unconvinced in your thing.

That's it, and that's all.


Ok. Im not hear to try and convince you...your mind is made up....I'm hear to find out why...it goes deeper than evidence...its something that is repelling you...the people...culture etc. experience. Im hear to hear your story...Your real story
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24-03-2014, 10:14 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2014 10:18 AM by rampant.a.i..)
RE: Having an honest conversation about God with a thiest
(24-03-2014 10:12 AM)vin2890 Wrote:  
(24-03-2014 10:04 AM)natachan Wrote:  Subjective personal experience is insufficient evidence. The existence of consciousness is proof of nothing. This is a very weak argument.



Well what your not going to be able to do is tell me that i'm not experiencing what i'm experiencing. It doesn't have to be evidence for you, but you what your not going to be able to say is that what i'm experiencing just doesn't exist...This is also a weak argument

There's no question that people can experience subjective brain-states that are very real to them, yet are entirely hallucinatory.

Internal, unverifiable personal experiences are unreliable because they are entirely subjective.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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