Having an issue Discussing My Atheism With my Partner
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31-07-2014, 03:44 PM
RE: Having an issue Discussing My Atheism With my Partner
Take her to a library. See all these books that aren't religious. That's my atheism.
My atheism is every book ever written that doesn't contain religious myth.
See every item around us. These shelves, the floor, the walls, the pictures on the walls, the carpet, the books themselves that were printed out on a machine that was man made. Nothing here was made by a god. You were made by your parents. You are not a carbon copy of them. You were born with slight differences. And speaking of carbon, do you know where the carbon in your body comes from ? It comes from exploding stars and the atoms from your right hand probably came from a different star than the atoms in your left hand. If stars didn't make & explode those heavier elements out into space, life as we know it wouldn't exist.

If you truly care if your beliefs are true or not, then you need a way to discern fact from fantasy.
I care if my beliefs are true or not. That is the difference between us. If you want to walk around with a happy smile on your face due to some delusion going on in your head, that's fine. I don't mind at all. Just don't take that delusion with you to the voting booth. If you can't tell if something is real or not, I don't want you deciding who is in charge of the nuke codes.

If your god is real, take him out to dinner and let him pick up the check. Tell me all about your date when you get home.
I'm willing to bet the restaurant knows the difference between real money and fantasy money.

In the mean time, blow me for jesus.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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02-08-2014, 01:36 PM
RE: Having an issue Discussing My Atheism With my Partner
to talk with a Christian in a way that they will listen to you and for what you say to sink in, you should have a thorough knowledge of Christian apologetics.

take some very deep breaths , practice relaxation , and prepare to be as calm as you can without being angry or confrontational.

if you sense your partner getting upset , be the bigger person. That might be the sign that you should dial it down a bit or end the conversation.

give your partner time. It can take quite a few months or years before a person is free from their scrupulous bondage and it never happens instantaneously. be patient a religious person as a mature adult is speaking to a child who believes in Bigfoot ,the boogie man, or ghosts.

Be a confident atheist. Do as I say not as I do. Do not be one of those people (me) who is ashamed and full of doubts about his unbelief.

take it or leave it.
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02-08-2014, 03:14 PM
RE: Having an issue Discussing My Atheism With my Partner
(31-07-2014 07:07 AM)LeftHandedLeft Wrote:  Hello All,

I am in search of some insight and perhaps some help. I am rather deep into Learning about all things non religious and spent countless hours daily listening to debates, podcasts, and lectures on all things skeptic. This has become an issue in my home life. As I listen and learn, conversations inevitably develop between My partner and I.

She is a believer. In What, I am not sure. She has been raised Christian and just recently left an abusive marriage that she stayed in only because God might have fixed it if she was just submissive enough.

We have had regular conversation about Faith, Belief, and the Spiritual. What once was an open minded conversation about faith has now turned into a rather large road block for us.

She has come to the conclusion that Religion is the Problem Not God. She doesn't believe in the God of the Bible or of any Religion. She isn't sure that God helps or that he Cares. But he is real. She says that I am trying to destroy her belief. She wants to know what it matters to me that God is Comforting; she can't let go of her faith because of all the "experiences" that have shown her that God exists.

I am not sure that I even need to be involved in this debate with her and I am more than willingly to have differences of opinion. Unfortunately, this has become a sticking point for our relationship because she believes that its important that her partner share her beliefs. She can't even describe what her beliefs are. She doesn't even know.

I wonder if this is part of the deconversion process. Is there another way to frame the question that may help her to think more critically or am I overstepping my bounds.

I have been married twice, both to Catholic women, and have always been an atheist. I tried not to raise any issues about it but it has really annoyed me that my so went to a Catholic school and Communion. I was powerless to do anything about it as my wife's mother was high up in the church.

I got into this whole issue again because of this. I had been happy to ignore it and assume it was just religiosity, myth and a bit of history of some minor priest type bigged up into something more than it was but my googling turned up Joe Atwill his book Caesar's Messiah which rasied big problems for me because it nailed home my atheism etc and left no place for Christianity at all. This all took place as we were moving to the Near East to be near to our Muslim side of the family. Great!

Then I came upon Ralph Ellis and his writings about Jesus of Gamala and got hold of his book, Jesus King of Edessa, which I found fascinating. I then reread various books I have hung onto since university, like Lucretious, The Nature of Things, and Suetonius, The Twelve Caesars.

What I realized in all this is that Christianity is most definitely a religion arising out of Hellenistic ideas of gnosticism which are similar to Epicureanism and had slipped out of style during the paganisticly brutal rule of the Claudian Ceasars. The golden rule was not much followed by the likes of Caligula so it is no wonder that when Nero killed himself there was a lot of jostling for the position of Roman Emperor, with the Flavians coming out on top. They were welcomed because they were Hellenistic and promoted a type of Christianity which followed a man god called Serapis and it is believed that they had a hand together with Alexandrian Hellenistic Jews and Josephus Flavius in writing Christianity up as a work in which the central theme is one of gnosticism, or common sense, which is an Epicurean idea.

Many writers, Joe Atwill in particular, are starting to point out the many inconsistencies in the New Testament which, if the work was a unified piece of literature, must have been deliberate and make much of the supernatural nonsense look as though it is deliberately inconsistent.

Where this has taken me is to the idea that Christianity is a very carefully and well crafted effort to supplant the paganism of the Claudians with a rational, reason based morality based on the golden rule. Despite the jeers on this forum, I find that to be a very interesting, plausible and reassuring idea, that I can accept the morality in the knowledge, my own, which is good enough for me, that the rest of the mumbo jumbo is just there to attract the more credulous into it, cuz, otherwise, they would still be sacrificing their neighbours to Thor.

I also find it reassuring that there are a number of writers who liken the golden rule to Kant's Categorical Imperative, ie., act so that the maxim upon which you act can be applied universally.

For me that is enough. Let the Missus have her angels and rosary beads and her iconography. I can rise above it, not believe the supernatural aspects, reason out my own moral conduct and be thankful that at least I am not living somewhere where they behead people with a sword.
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02-08-2014, 04:34 PM
RE: Having an issue Discussing My Atheism With my Partner
(02-08-2014 01:36 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  to talk with a Christian in a way that they will listen to you and for what you say to sink in, you should have a thorough knowledge of Christian apologetics.

take some very deep breaths , practice relaxation , and prepare to be as calm as you can without being angry or confrontational.

if you sense your partner getting upset , be the bigger person. That might be the sign that you should dial it down a bit or end the conversation.

give your partner time. It can take quite a few months or years before a person is free from their scrupulous bondage and it never happens instantaneously. be patient a religious person as a mature adult is speaking to a child who believes in Bigfoot ,the boogie man, or ghosts.

Be a confident atheist. Do as I say not as I do. Do not be one of those people (me) who is ashamed and full of doubts about his unbelief.

take it or leave it.

Except she's not actually a Christian, so that won't help.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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