He contradicts himself a lot.
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21-08-2017, 05:09 PM
RE: He contradicts himself a lot.
(21-08-2017 03:12 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  There is a quote from I think Hitchens maybe about If god is aware of evil, but unable to do anything about it, or aware and doesn't give a damn, or is completely unaware, then why call he/she/it god?

That's the Epicurus dilemma. Its a famous moral question that brought the entire debate on the ''problem of evil'' and theodicy as a branch of theology.

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21-08-2017, 06:38 PM
RE: He contradicts himself a lot.
[Image: quote-is-god-willing-to-prevent-evil-but...342329.jpg]

I've found, that any argument that seems plausible for religion, when stripped bare, is actually, only, a reasonable argument for deism. And even then, only, an argument for a deity who does not fundamentally care about the outcome of our existence. Anyone who tries to argue for a personal God, given the immense level of needless suffering, will be arguing for the existence of a tyrant.

Occam's razor then implies that there is no need to employ a second layer of causality, when it is fundamentally unnecessary.

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
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21-08-2017, 07:46 PM
RE: He contradicts himself a lot.
(21-08-2017 01:09 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  To me, he talks more like he is a deist, not a theist. Let me know your thoughts.

Deists are theists. Or, did you mean that he sounds more like a theist who doesn't believe in a personal, interventionist god rather than one who does?
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22-08-2017, 06:41 AM
RE: He contradicts himself a lot.
(21-08-2017 07:46 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(21-08-2017 01:09 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  To me, he talks more like he is a deist, not a theist. Let me know your thoughts.

Deists are theists. Or, did you mean that he sounds more like a theist who doesn't believe in a personal, interventionist god rather than one who does?

I just worded it wrong. I did mean that he seems to believe that god doesn't care. Yet he prays to this god that doesn't give a shit. It is such a mind fuck.
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22-08-2017, 12:40 PM
RE: He contradicts himself a lot.
(22-08-2017 06:41 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I did mean that he seems to believe that god doesn't care. Yet he prays to this god that doesn't give a shit. It is such a mind fuck.
Only if by "prays to" you mean that he makes requests. That would be dumb. But there is a school of thought that says prayer is more of a mediative act, designed to change the mind of the one praying, rather than the one prayed to. It's "not my will but thine be done". That is why deists (or at least self-consistent deists) pray to their indifferent / absent god. While their god is not active in the world, and does not "care'", the notion is that it created everything, had some sort of (presumably benevolent) purpose in doing so, and therefore, there's still some basis to tell yourself that everything is just hunky-dory if only you stand on your left foot facing into the wind and think about it a certain way.
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22-08-2017, 01:11 PM
RE: He contradicts himself a lot.
(22-08-2017 12:40 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(22-08-2017 06:41 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I did mean that he seems to believe that god doesn't care. Yet he prays to this god that doesn't give a shit. It is such a mind fuck.
Only if by "prays to" you mean that he makes requests. That would be dumb. But there is a school of thought that says prayer is more of a mediative act, designed to change the mind of the one praying, rather than the one prayed to. It's "not my will but thine be done". That is why deists (or at least self-consistent deists) pray to their indifferent / absent god. While their god is not active in the world, and does not "care'", the notion is that it created everything, had some sort of (presumably benevolent) purpose in doing so, and therefore, there's still some basis to tell yourself that everything is just hunky-dory if only you stand on your left foot facing into the wind and think about it a certain way.

He blatantly thanks god for everything and asks for guidance and help. He is asking for things.
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22-08-2017, 02:53 PM
RE: He contradicts himself a lot.
(22-08-2017 01:11 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  He blatantly thanks god for everything and asks for guidance and help. He is asking for things.
Then at the very minimum he doesn't understand the implications of his deism.
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22-08-2017, 03:04 PM
RE: He contradicts himself a lot.
(22-08-2017 02:53 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(22-08-2017 01:11 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  He blatantly thanks god for everything and asks for guidance and help. He is asking for things.
Then at the very minimum he doesn't understand the implications of his deism.

I don't think anyone but me caught on that he talks like a deist. I doubt any of them knows what that means. You can't say that god doesn't care and isn't fair or just and then pray to that god. It really is crazy.
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