Heard Around The Oort Cloud
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09-03-2013, 01:50 PM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2013 01:55 PM by EGross.)
RE: Heard Around The Oort Cloud
I had been told by a believer that God loves me. I shouted upward "Hey God, is that true?!", and after a few seconds, "Well, it looks like you are wrong, He's ignoring me." Upon which he said "God doesn't work like that!"

But if you read the religious texts, he used to almost always work like that. The Hebrew cry out in Egypt and "poof" there's a burning bush talking to Moses. Almost a year of supernatural plagues, including the river turned into blood and the death of the firstborn to end it. Thousands die. He makes pillars of fire and clouds. He splits the seas. He has a sound and light show at Sinai that all the nations are aware of and fear. He splits the ground and suck up the enemies of Moses. He stops the sun for Joshua. And if you want to go Christian text, he causes a zombie army to march on Passover evening which would make one hell of a Seder! ("Brains...brains..." - "Why is tonight different...?")

And you tell me that He, for some reason, decided all of a sudden to be Mister Sullen? He doesn't really want to take away free will anymore, even though the OT if chock full of Him doing exactly that! So He finally figured out that he didn't like that or...

...none of that stuff really happened and "He doesn't work like that" is a cop out from admitting that NT/OT are not histories, and none of that stuff ever happened, and this "God thing" is grasping out of hope rather than based on experience, feelings rather than facts, poorly selected "logic" ("junk science") rather than actual scientific deduction.

"God wants you to have free will" while the stories show otherwise, and "God doesn't work like that" meaning, a group of slaves who were clueless about a God deserve saving from death, but not their descendants in WWII.

Obviously, God prefers the adoration of the ignorant.

“I've done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"— Ned Flanders
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11-03-2013, 06:43 AM
RE: Heard Around The Oort Cloud
Quote: had been told by a believer that God loves me. I shouted upward "Hey God, is that true?!", and after a few seconds, "Well, it looks like you are wrong, He's ignoring me." Upon which he said "God doesn't work like that!"

But if you read the religious texts, he used to almost always work like that. The Hebrew cry out in Egypt and "poof" there's a burning bush talking to Moses.
They cried out because they were in bondage, God answered them after quite a long while. You cried out because you were being mocking and supercilious. God does miracles frequently today. However, the Bible is explicit that since people rebuffed and martyred the prophets and the Messiah sent them that belief today is based on your reaction(s) to God's Word and those who present the Bible to you.
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11-03-2013, 07:05 AM
RE: Heard Around The Oort Cloud
Actually, if you read the text, the Hebrews cried. Period. They had long since forgotten anything about God, so the text shows they were not directing their prayers to any supernatural being. Now, God heard and said, "Oh, Shit! I forgot about them!" As it is written, "And God remembered".

And my point was that nobody has really ever heard God say "No problem. Let me get back to you on that", even if the cry was sincere. The descendants of these very people that He supposedly chose, who did have sincere cries and prayers as they were forced into gas showers, he didn't answer them either. Unless it was He who laughed from the rooftop as Zyclon-B was poured. A tear of delight rolling down His cheek as he went, "That was AWESOME! Again!"

No, if there is a supernatural being, He either doesn't care, lost His voice, or is pretty sick and twisted.

“I've done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"— Ned Flanders
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11-03-2013, 09:58 AM
RE: Heard Around The Oort Cloud
Quote:No, if there is a supernatural being, He either doesn't care, lost His voice, or is pretty sick and twisted.
How did you draw those conclusions? Because He didn't answer your prayer... yet? How do you He's sick and twisted? What universal ethical code are you projecting onto the Bible?
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11-03-2013, 10:25 AM
RE: Heard Around The Oort Cloud
The original quote by the OP basically says this: "I'm going to invent something in my mind with the specific intent of granting it properties which I know can't be tested, and then claim that makes it real."

Complete nonsense, and only someone without basic reasoning skills would take it seriously.
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11-03-2013, 11:08 AM (This post was last modified: 11-03-2013 11:13 AM by EGross.)
RE: Heard Around The Oort Cloud
No. If you had read my complete post, I was speaking of the 6 million who really cried out in anguish and hope and got...nothing. You get that poison gas coming down at you and you tell me that your begging, to a supernatural being who supposedly rescued your ancestors, is not a genuine prayer. Drinking Beverage


They were all conned. He never did any of that BS. It's all a lie. It's time to drop your fantasy and close the book on that non-existant monster.



(11-03-2013 09:58 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:No, if there is a supernatural being, He either doesn't care, lost His voice, or is pretty sick and twisted.
How did you draw those conclusions? Because He didn't answer your prayer... yet? How do you He's sick and twisted? What universal ethical code are you projecting onto the Bible?

“I've done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"— Ned Flanders
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11-03-2013, 11:53 AM
RE: Heard Around The Oort Cloud
Quote:No. If you had read my complete post, I was speaking of the 6 million who really cried out in anguish and hope and got...nothing. You get that poison gas coming down at you and you tell me that your begging, to a supernatural being who supposedly rescued your ancestors, is not a genuine prayer.
Some estimates have as many as 1.5 Million adults saved out of the Holocaust--many of the Jewish people went to the ovens praying for the Messiah to deliver Israel and confessing the Shema, that there is a [plural] One God. Bad choice for any kind of soteriological discussion with me YET the point stands: "What universal ethics code tells you a Holocaust or suffering is "bad"?" Pain is clearly an evolutionary response to stimuli, gazelles feel pain when leopards bite them--should we stop all leopards from eating their prey because they cause suffering? How from a naturalist's perspective did you determine suffering is all "bad"?
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11-03-2013, 12:12 PM
RE: Heard Around The Oort Cloud
You poor, deluded, brainwashed, woman/man. Each thread you start, PJ, is just an epic disaster of plagiarism, fallacy, dishonesty and ignorance.

Please, please , please, pick a topic and stick with it. Perhaps after a few months of intelligent discourse you can recover your reputation from the "Run the Gauntlet" debacle.
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11-03-2013, 12:13 PM
RE: Heard Around The Oort Cloud
Ok, I'll try this one last time before I give up.

There is this story that God promised Abraham some stuff. Then the Hebrews, the descendants of Abraham suffer. God remembers his promise to Abraham, and even though the Hebrews did not deserve it, water turned to blood, pillars of fire, the sea parts, and so forth. Anyhow, that's the story.

Fast forward 3500 years. The intention is to wipe out the descendants of Abraham. The people cry out. In fact, there are many parallels to the story except one thing.

Silence from any supernatural being. The bridge going to Aushwitz did not collapse (nor did God force the USA aircraft to drop a bomb on it while it was in their sights). No loud voices from Heaven. No burning bush, just burning flesh. No curse of darkness, just blackened ash with the bodies of the dead.

What I am saying is that those old stories - they are stories. They never happened. Because there is no way that anyone can convince me that had God ever spoken to someone and had ever intervened in a way that everyone seeing would go "Holy Crap!" that He just suddenly went on vacation for 2000 years after causing a zombie-fest in Jerusalem on Passover Eve! Maybe He got pissed off because nobody in the world noticed that. Or, more simply, He never was there in the first place.

So the very same descendants of those to whom he had promised in the Bible story (I could use 9/11 as an example, but this one has a better parallel), to whom he was Mister Talkative, just shut up, and who was Mister "Hey Everybody, Look What I Can Do", decided to invoke the Star Trek Prime Directive and not get involved.

It's a con game, that the blind keep playing, never accepting the truth - that the cards are blank, and they always have been, and when the people who believed in all of this walked to their deaths, crying out to the One Single deity with the Sh'ma, that it is "OUR" God - they never accepted that He not only was not their God, but that the Divine Throne was always empty.

“I've done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"— Ned Flanders
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11-03-2013, 02:08 PM
RE: Heard Around The Oort Cloud
Actually, the Torah describes perfectly the Diaspora and sufferings of Israel for their rejection of the Messiah. Before you change your story again, this time to get madder at Ha Shem, recognize that after 1/2 to 2/3 of world Jewry were slaughtered by the Nazis, in fulfillment of prophecy, less than three years later Israel was a Jewish nation again, to the astonishment of the world...! Prophecy... and prophecy.
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