Heartbreaking, But..........
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29-10-2015, 08:28 AM
RE: Heartbreaking, But..........
(29-10-2015 05:15 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 01:43 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  My perspective is -- if you're willing to lie to a dying child "to make them feel better" -- you've just endorsed religion.

Or murder/suicide!

I saw many people leave life to join Jesus while on the cancer ward. I refused to die. They are no more. I remain.

Enough said.

Really? Murder/suicide? Bullshit. Offering someone verbal support (even if fictional) does not equate in any way to euthanasia and even making that comparison is offensive.

And, while I salute your attitude and fighting spirit, there were other factors that aided your cancer fight. It also has nothing to do with the situation at hand. This child does not have cancer. Cancer can sometimes be cured. There is no cure for her condition. There are only painful treatments that she cannot understand.

(28-10-2015 01:43 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  My perspective is -- if you're willing to lie to a dying child "to make them feel better" -- you've just endorsed religion.

I suspect that it's exactly how it got started in the first place.....

"Gee sorry honey -- but Grandma's going to live in heaven now".....


UN-fucking-forgivable.....

No. The catholic church's policies on AIDS in Africa are unforgivable.
Offering comfort to the dying is compassion.

You think telling her there is no god will make her fight harder? Did you read the article? She's been fighting her whole fucking life. It is every persons right to decide when they've had enough. In the case of a child, the parents and medical personnel have a say as well. Everyone involved in this case agrees. It is only a matter of time and the quality of that time.

If a make-believe story offers a dying child comfort then so be it. Sometimes that's all you can do.

Yes, religion is false. But there is a time and place for that fight and the deathbed is not it. If I wanted blind, unchanging dogma I would have stayed in church.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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29-10-2015, 11:22 AM
RE: Heartbreaking, But..........
I'm torn on this.

On one hand I would never tell a child such fairy tales to begin with. I have an almost visceral reaction to allowing a 5- year old to make such a decision; voice an opinion, yes, make the decision, no.

On the other hand, if she already has such beliefs I would not try to shatter them at this point.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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29-10-2015, 11:28 AM
RE: Heartbreaking, But..........
This all started when the doctor presented it as an option. Docs don't give up easily, I would expect that all he could see for her was a future of misery, and then death.
Right now a friend's grandchild is getting a 23 day round of chemo at Children's Hospital at age 5. He has been there since early August. His is an aggressive cancer that just about had him when they found it, but as fast as it grew it can be shrunk down and beaten. He is going through misery now but there is light at the end of the tunnel, a decent chance for survival.
I could not see that same course with no chance Sad
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30-10-2015, 11:17 AM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2015 11:23 AM by GenesisNemesis.)
RE: Heartbreaking, But..........
(29-10-2015 05:15 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 01:43 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  My perspective is -- if you're willing to lie to a dying child "to make them feel better" -- you've just endorsed religion.

Or murder/suicide!

I saw many people leave life to join Jesus while on the cancer ward. I refused to die. They are no more. I remain.

Enough said.

You can pretend that you're superior to other people, or you can have a little empathy. Your choice. Other people are not you. They have entirely different experiences than you, and when faced with a debilitating disease, they often feel that they can't hold on anymore. You can't blame them for that. Calling them cowards is completely useless and does nothing to help them. You're only kicking someone when they're down for no reason other than to make yourself feel superior.
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30-10-2015, 11:27 AM
RE: Heartbreaking, But..........
(28-10-2015 01:43 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 12:52 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Not a great deal. Mainly my curiosity.

I am a parent. I know that I react differently to situations now that I am a parent, as compared to before I was a father.

I was simply curious about your perspective.
My perspective is -- if you're willing to lie to a dying child "to make them feel better" -- you've just endorsed religion.

I suspect that it's exactly how it got started in the first place.....

"Gee sorry honey -- but Grandma's going to live in heaven now".....


UN-fucking-forgivable.....

Do you suggest telling a child there is no god on what is very likely going to be her deathbed? That's just being a total asshole. As already said, expecting someone to make rational decisions when they're in such a desperate state is entirely absurd.
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30-10-2015, 11:33 AM
RE: Heartbreaking, But..........
(28-10-2015 10:48 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Fucktard cunts feeding a poor kid full of lies and promises that will never pan out...

Tell the kid the truth - and she'll fight like a maniac to stay alive.....

"God will take care of me".....

FUCK YOU LYING COWARDLY COCKSUCKERS!!!!!!

But she's going to die anyway. Her condition hasn't a cure. This isn't a case where a kid needs an operation to live and decides not to do it.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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30-10-2015, 11:37 AM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2015 01:10 PM by GenesisNemesis.)
RE: Heartbreaking, But..........
(28-10-2015 10:48 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  COWARDLY COCKSUCKERS!!!!!!

Just for the record, you have no idea what I or anyone else have faced in life. So please, shove it.
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30-10-2015, 11:40 AM
RE: Heartbreaking, But..........
(29-10-2015 11:22 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  I'm torn on this.

On one hand I would never tell a child such fairy tales to begin with. I have an almost visceral reaction to allowing a 5- year old to make such a decision; voice an opinion, yes, make the decision, no.

On the other hand, if she already has such beliefs I would not try to shatter them at this point.

But if you take the god crap out...she's still a 5 year that's been fighting her whole life a completely incurable disease. Fairy tale or no, it doesn't matter. The kid is going to die at some point.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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30-10-2015, 01:00 PM
RE: Heartbreaking, But..........
This reminds me of a short film called Helium. It pretty much sums up my feelings on making children feel as comfortable as possible if they are dying, which is scary enough and hard enough to comprehend for adults, never mind children.




"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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30-10-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: Heartbreaking, But..........
I would have lied to my son and told him of a beautiful fairytale heaven. Something wonderful to imagine while going through traumatic procedures. Something to lessen the anxiety of impending death.

This child has suffered. When she's dead she won't know the difference.


I could never be a pediatric nurse - NT suctioning my adult patients is bad enough. I can't imagine having to do that every two hours or less on a small child that has no hope of survival. Makes my stomach turn.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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