Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
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02-06-2016, 10:46 AM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(02-06-2016 10:15 AM)SYZ Wrote:  ]How can you claim to know this? Are you privy to your god's plans? [sic]

Yes.


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02-06-2016, 10:53 AM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(02-06-2016 08:44 AM)Chas Wrote:  Besides, you can't use the Book of Mormon to prove the Book of Mormon. Facepalm

I did not say that.

Question, how many times of you read the Book Of Mormon cover to cover?

Do you believe in God or the power of the Spirit to communicate truth?



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02-06-2016, 11:20 AM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(02-06-2016 10:53 AM)LDS1 Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 08:44 AM)Chas Wrote:  Besides, you can't use the Book of Mormon to prove the Book of Mormon. Facepalm

I did not say that.

Question, how many times of you read the Book Of Mormon cover to cover?

Never. I have read some parts.

Quote:Do you believe in God or the power of the Spirit to communicate truth?

No. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-06-2016, 01:06 PM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(02-06-2016 11:20 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 10:53 AM)LDS1 Wrote:  I did not say that.

Question, how many times of you read the Book Of Mormon cover to cover?

Never. I have read some parts.

Quote:Do you believe in God or the power of the Spirit to communicate truth?

No. Drinking Beverage
Thank you. Would you be willing to read it then give me your opinion?

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02-06-2016, 01:22 PM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(01-06-2016 11:22 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 10:58 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  No they didn't. Hunger for power may have been their motivation. They didn't tell the people "do all this so that I can be the master over you and have all this power". They were explicitly anti-reason. They asked the people to have faith and heart. Both Stalin and Hitler explicitly asked the people to sacrifice for the good of the people, to put aside their selfish desires and plans in favor of the plan of the leaders who were the voice of the people. You see under a morality of selfless sacrifice there have to be those who collect the sacrifice. They could not have done what they did on the basis of reason and individualism. Only on the grounds of selflessness as a virtue. That is what religion teaches. The Nazi's just replaced one supernatural entity, God, for another, the Volk or the collective. It is all right there as plain as day in their writings.

I don't think it is right at all to forgive evil. Errors of knowledge should be forgiven if the person is willing to make amends but never deliberate acts of evil. That would be self immolation. That is what many religions call their followers to do.
Mercy and self sacrifice for the greater good aren't the same. I agree that both can be used as tools of manipulation. I disagree that they are, in themselves themselves not virtuous and benefitial towards the betterment and or peaceable continued existence of all.

I do not deny that many principalities of an organized religious sort and otherwise indeed use virtuous things in wholly manipulative nagative ways.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Then you and I have a fundamental disagreement. I do not believe in Human Sacrifice. There is no greater good than that of the individual. The greater good is a fiction. No greater good can ever justify the sacrifice of the rights of any individual.

This whole notion of mercy and leniency for criminals can be traced directly to the idea of original sin. Who are we to judge? We're all sinners. None of us are good. We're no better after all. This is the view of man promoted by Christianity. Whoever says "who are we to judge" is saying "who are we to think". Evil is not overcome by appeasement, sanction or forgiveness. It must be identified, judged and acted upon accordingly.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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02-06-2016, 01:46 PM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(02-06-2016 01:06 PM)LDS1 Wrote:  Thank you. Would you be willing to read it then give me your opinion?

What kind of sadist are you? Condemning an intelligent man to read drivel.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-06-2016, 02:55 PM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(02-06-2016 10:53 AM)LDS1 Wrote:  Do you believe ... the power of the Spirit to communicate truth?
Can you explain more clearly how this presents itself?

How does "the power of the Spirit" communicate?
How do we recognise that this is "the power of the Spirit" rather than the devil or our own imagination?
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02-06-2016, 03:52 PM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
Stevil, thank you for the question. It is important, as you said, one can be mislead.

Let me share one event (of many) that explains what I mean. A friend of mine, Polly, wanted to read aloud scriptures with me - we choose The Book of Mormon. We said a prayer before we started inviting the Spirit so we can understand more deeply what we read. At some point in reading the Spirit fell upon us and we both looked at each other and asked each other "do you feel that?" The Spirit continued to increase and we both sat silently as we enjoyed the companionship of the Holy Ghost. It lasted for several minutes and then lessened in intensity and then it was over. But not the impact. We both got off the chairs, sat down on the floor, backs to the wall, and spoke quite awhile about what we experienced and what it meant. We felt joy and peace and love.

What does the Spirit feel like? It is unlike any human emotion or thought. If you have not tasted chocolate I doubt I can can describe it sufficiently so you'd get a good idea what it taste like. Similarly, I can try to tell you what it felt like but words are wholly inadequate.

First you know instantly it is from an external source - like the heat of the sun on a warm summer day, you know for certainly it is not self generated. Second - your mind is filled with light and intelligence, and you feel a deep peace and joy wash over you - you know it is the Holy Ghost. The Spirit communicates with our spirit and mind... It teaches truth....in this case the Spirit testified that the Book of Mormon is true, that Joseph Smith was a true prophet, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day is the Kindom of God on earth, and that Jesus is the Christ.

Sometimes the witness or message is less broad or about a specific thing... Or it would be far greater in topics.... The point is that intelligence and knowledge and joy and love and peace flow through the power of the Holy Ghost. This is how I know these things to be true.

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02-06-2016, 03:58 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 04:02 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(02-06-2016 03:52 PM)LDS1 Wrote:  Second - your mind is filled with light and intelligence, and you feel a deep peace and joy wash over you - you know it is the Holy Ghost.

I just figured it was the MDMA.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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02-06-2016, 04:31 PM
RE: Heaven or Hell? You be the judge!
(02-06-2016 03:52 PM)LDS1 Wrote:  The point is that intelligence and knowledge and joy and love and peace flow through the power of the Holy Ghost.

You are quite wrong. It is the power of Allah that gives you these things.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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